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World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

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Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#41
post #28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

that’s why we need regulatory bodies and, yes, tariffs which should factor all those additional costs: to environment, human rights, etc.

tariffs are a poor instrument for anything except raising the price of incoming goods so that your local industries can compete. And then you're still "picking the winners and losers" by selectively applying tariffs. It's a tax that hurts consumers and helps industries. There's a place for it in well measured smart economic policy, but in almost every case it's better to use a tax (like carbon tax) than a tariff. Essentially that's what a tariff is, but calling it a tax and giving a good reason for it is a lot less likely to cause retaliatory tariffs.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#42
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that sme…

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label.

These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#43
post #14
post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

“It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else.”

Neither can statisticians so that’s why I don’t put any trust in CPI numbers (“inflation”). They don’t even track amount sold (I.e. did the 355 ml pop become 340ml?) how are they going to track quality???

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#45
post #33
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that same subject - it was interesting to me how much better fresh produce was in Italy. In no small part I think this is due to the fact that people have a pretty good ability to distinguish the quality of a lot of traditional foods there. In the stores, the produce isn't usually as neat and tidy and pretty as in the US - you might even find a few bad bits and pieces, but by and large, it tastes really good.

I'm not surprised. Local fresh produce tends to be the way to get much better food products. What I would like to see is a curated list of all common objects we use daily that have the properties I mentioned above: high quality, safety and repairability. Places like r/bifl and manufactum.de are good starting points, but they are far from complete.

It's not necessarily local - these aren't what I'd call high end or "hipster" type markets, just regular supermarkets. They'll bring in stuff from southern Italy, or Spain or wherever is convenient.

But they do pay attention to quality because their customers want that.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#47
post #27

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China ( https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa... ). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and P…

Yes. I think taiwan was/is a leader in Carbon Fiber. 90s carbon-fiber-glued-to-aluminum bikes were all made from CF tubing that was made in taiwan, by Giant (that last detail I'm a little less sure on, made in taiwan for certain). Specialized, Trek, and Giant all had very similar bikes available at that time, conventional geometries with Shimano 600 (I've got one, I love it). Modern monocoque designs are a little more diverse in design, but I think all but the highest end are made in taiwan.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that sme…

>And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. These guys will put lead in children's toys but would never be so unscrupulous as to put a fake label on the product? Or lie to obtain certification?

That's a criticism of the supply chain and enforcement, not the certification itself.

I think most people would agree that a promise without verification is no real promise.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#49
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that sme…

CE mark is a self reported thing.

TüV and UL are more reliable, but they are still a minimum standard of safety, not a sign of quality.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#50
post #27

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China ( https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa... ). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and P…

I don't have a Giant bike but I have some giant accessories and they have all been to a very high standard.
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