World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory • Hacker News Board

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#21

Post by azernik » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:36 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #14

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#22

Post by lostlogin » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:39 PM UTC

azernik wrote: post #21

josho wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

Yup. I worked at a company selling enterprise equipment, and they were absolutely opposed to entering the consumer market precisely because low-information customers push everyone into a race to the bottom.

There are notable exception to this in most industries, but it’s got to be a hard path to walk. Somewhat amusingly, most people’s favourite brands tend to be the more quality ones, if my circle is anything to go by (which is a trap). If it’s what they buy is a whole different thing.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#23

Post by mymythisisthis » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:40 PM UTC

Bicycles are something that you need to be careful buying. Don't buy a BSO - a Bicycle Shaped Object. Just because it looks like a bike, doesn't mean you can comfortably ride it. An entry level bike is about $1200. You can comfortably ride it for hours, or up hills, carry a heavy load, it won't easily break, and it'll have a smooth ride. I feel bad for people that go out and buy a BSO; BSOs ruin cycling. We need to have laws in place to prevent crap from reaching the market.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#24

Post by wtallis » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #20

nafizh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.

Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.

Shimano doesn't sell bicycles, just a lot of bicycle components and accessories.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#25

Post by lostapathy » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #9

jopsen wrote: post #4

This could just be a neat spin on a move towards automation :)

Are there any robots yet that can weld bicycle frames? I thought that was still a job for humans...

Robots weld all kinds of complicated things - cars for example. Why not bikes?

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#26

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #20

nafizh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.

Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.

Shimano is the world’s major bicycle-component manufacturer, but they do not do much production of frames or complete bikes, and Giant certainly leads in that regard.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#27

Post by gravelc » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China (https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa...). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and Pacific Cycles in Taiwan, then re-branded.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#28

Post by option » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #14

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

that’s why we need regulatory bodies and, yes, tariffs which should factor all those additional costs: to environment, human rights, etc.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#29

Post by daveguy » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #14

nextos wrote: post #8

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes…

> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).

I think this is one of the few places where blockchain would be more help than hurt. Provenance of materials, location of manufacture, even tolerances and standards applied could be tracked across multiple independent companies. Of course, enforcing what goes on the blockchain would be a whole different can of worms. This sort of tracking is important in manufacturing standards (ISO9001). Coupling non-central control of the manufacturing record would be very helpful implementing standards like ISO9001 and allow third party analysis of "manufacturing quality" and "environmental impact" ... even better if it can be integrated into manufacturing instruments that can register a step automatically. Shipping and supply companies are looking heavily into these types of applications.

Re: World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

#30

Post by BuckRogers » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #13

avocado4 wrote: post #3

Perhaps if manufacturers will move out of PRC into nearby countries it won't have a large effect on prices for consumers and businesses in the US, but at the same time will force China to make structural changes in adherence with the rules of global trade and human rights. Too bad Trump has alienated traditional US allies - if major economies teamed up in this effort it would have been a much easier goal.

The "traditional US allies" have been the least help in this. The U.S. government hasn't done enough to support Taiwan in my opinion, but U.S. relations with India, Viet nam, Korea, etc. are exceptionally good. Among them surely is a replacement for some of the scale and industrial power the PRC is unwilling to provide on reasonable terms.

The USA can't provide that scale and industrial power? Seems like the elephant in the room.