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HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

jeromecohen.net

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Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#61

Post by darkpuma »

luckylion wrote: post #46
ksec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? 2. The situation is not loophole left by the British. But it was specifically left in place so the one country two system would work for the next ( then ) 50 years. To guarantee the certain freedom of the Hong Kong people which was clearly listed out in the Sino-British Joint Declaration. 3. It is not a Riot . ( I am sorry but that has to be one of the most insulting t…

> 1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? For my personal taste: the "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment instead of replying with an argument" part that many users engage in. I see two explanations: infantile "NO NO NO" and malicious "if I downvote this, it will be buried and fewer others will see it". Given the design of the voting and flagging system and the fact that it's not…

> "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment"

If that bothers you, then HN is not the site for you. Downvotes for disagreeing has received the thumb of approval from PG[0]. Upvotes are for agree and downvotes are for disagree. On reddit people like to pretend otherwise (even though it's true in practice there as well), but here on HN there are no bones about it.

[0] one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#62

Post by marcinzm »

luckylion wrote: post #46
ksec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? 2. The situation is not loophole left by the British. But it was specifically left in place so the one country two system would work for the next ( then ) 50 years. To guarantee the certain freedom of the Hong Kong people which was clearly listed out in the Sino-British Joint Declaration. 3. It is not a Riot . ( I am sorry but that has to be one of the most insulting t…

> 1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? For my personal taste: the "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment instead of replying with an argument" part that many users engage in. I see two explanations: infantile "NO NO NO" and malicious "if I downvote this, it will be buried and fewer others will see it". Given the design of the voting and flagging system and the fact that it's not…

The third option is always "I consider this post's argument so stupid it's not worth my time replying to as it shows the poster is incapable of intelligent discussion on this issue." My response to the poster explains why in my opinion these comments fall into this category.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#63

Post by Bakary »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #45
Bakary wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing is on the wall for Hong Kong even within China, as other cities have caught up economically.

Hong Kong still has a huge advantage compared to mainland cities with respect to its liberties and legal framework, making it often the better place to do business than say Shanghai or Shenzhen. However, the CPC is quickly eroding these advantages.

These help a lot to be sure, but the city has gone from having an economy that was almost a third of the mainland's in 1993, to a fifth at the handover, to less than 3% today.[0] It is still important but no longer crucial to China. In a generation or so, it will be just another city among dozens.

The idea that rights and liberties are absolutely essential is a nice bedtime story we can tell ourselves, but if there weren't multiple paths towards economic development, then China would never have risen to the current level. Even in the West we probably only got those rights because it made economic sense to have them with the way we developed over time.[1]

[0] http://www.ejinsight.com/20170609-hk-versus-china-gdp-a-sobe...

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-39706765

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#64

Post by NotPaidToPost »

darkpuma wrote: post #61
luckylion wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? For my personal taste: the "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment instead of replying with an argument" part that many users engage in. I see two explanations: infantile "NO NO NO" and malicious "if I downvote this, it will be buried and fewer others will see it". Given the design of the voting and flagging system and the fact that it's not…

> "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment" If that bothers you, then HN is not the site for you. Downvotes for disagreeing has received the thumb of approval from PG[0]. Upvotes are for agree and downvotes are for disagree. On reddit people like to pretend otherwise (even though it's true in practice there as well), but here on HN there are no bones about it. [0] one example: https://news.yco…

Hence the groupthink we see all the time... Not least on such a topic which is 'owned' by extremists who will not tolerate even a shred of non-conformity.

It's hypocrisy when mods say otherwise.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#65

Post by frozenport »

egao1980 wrote: post #39
naringas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the USA ("Western") system has to at least fabricate some charges or destroy the target's reputation. the PRC doesn't seem to have such 'cumbersome' restrictions.

Tell that to the guys in Gitmo. Though they might be not nice and totally guilty nobody bothered to formally charge them.

They were really POWs, but the Bush administration had too many legal obstacles to declaring them as such.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#66

Post by frozenport »

iamdelirium wrote: post #26
egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

The article doesn't talk about the US or Assange at all. Why are you even bringing it up?

The guy is probably a shill. The account was created a while ago, and has no other activity besides this discussion.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#67

Post by gamblor956 »

egao1980 wrote: post #39
naringas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the USA ("Western") system has to at least fabricate some charges or destroy the target's reputation. the PRC doesn't seem to have such 'cumbersome' restrictions.

Tell that to the guys in Gitmo. Though they might be not nice and totally guilty nobody bothered to formally charge them.

The guys in Gitmo were captured on the battlefield so the alternative is that they could be dead.

But let's focus on the lack of process in taking them captive instead of just killing then.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#69

Post by Bakary »

gruez wrote: post #32
egao1980 wrote: post #23

How this is worse than US extraditions / kidnapping of foreign nationals abroad? Never mind Assange there are plenty of people arrested outside of US and moved to US prison.

[flagged]

Whataboutism is relevant here. After all, one of the many reasons the right-wing elements became predominant in Japan in the first half of the 20th century is because Western powers were not willing to recognize it as an empire, even when they had done the same type of land grabs that Japan was trying to do.

edit: to clarify my clumsy statement a bit, I am not saying that criticism of America specifically is relevant here, or that America is just as bad (I agree that this is a ridiculous notion) but that the competing narratives and the past have direct consequences on politics. You can certainly see that on the discussions on climate change.

Re: HK's extradition law: Not just HK people have reason to fear Chinese “justice”

#70

Post by i_am_nomad »

egao1980 wrote: post #36
gruez wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

To be fair, at the times you've mentioning US _was_ "lynching negros". Here we have situation similar to US extraditing criminals from Puerto Rico. Why this suddenly become an issue?

Because this extradition arrangement is a very clear and specific violation of the agreement that brought HK under Chinese rule.
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