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I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

jalopnik.com

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Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#111

Post by danShumway »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #103
archi42 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abstracting this basically yields: "Random stranger X did something that is not right to do, so I'll hurt another random gal/guy Y for that"? Dear god, I hope you live really far away from me.

I agree with your thought process. I myself would never do that and I definitely don't endorse it. OTOH, if we apply this principle to the scooter riding population, we see that the people who ride these vehicles on sidewalks are hurting random gals/guys too. These riders made a conscious choice to defy the vehicle code -- and for what? Having some fun? Failure to plan their route to include a little more time? They…

I don't think there is an OTOH with this one.

If we apply this principle to the scooter riding population, we have no idea whether the person who's brake lines were just cut is going to be riding on the sidewalk in the first place. Heck, even in the case that the next person to use the scooter does ride on the sidewalk, cutting their brake lines greatly increases the risk to the ordinary pedestrians around them -- which was the whole thing that sparked the vandalism in the first place!

Riding scooters on the sidewalk is bad, but not comparable. One is negligence, and the other is a premeditated attempt to hurt someone who may or may not even have done anything wrong in the first place, while simultaneously greatly increasing the potential harm to everyone around them.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#112

Post by asdff »

kcorbitt wrote: post #19
lmm wrote: post #10

> We’ve restricted our entrants to scooter-type vehicles (as opposed to e-assist bicycles) And then the conclusion is that the most bicycle-like one is best because it's more bicycle-like. Seems like a category arbitrage rather than a fair analysis of mobility options.

I regularly ride my e-bike in SF but have also dabbled with the rental scooters. I have a hard time understanding the scooters' popularity, compared to a rentable e-bike like the Jump or Lime bikes. In my experience e-bikes have the advantage in top speed, stability, comfort and safety. Other than taking up marginally more space when parked, I can't think of any downsides. This matches the article author's conclusion…

Have you tried the rental e bike? I've only tried Lime's and it was hell to ride.

All these devices are absolutely abused. My lime's seat was skewed to the right, the handlebars skewed to the left, and it was the best one out of the clump when I picked it up. As soon as you touch the pedal the thing flies off nearly to top speed, which wouldn't be so jarring if the geometry of the bike didn't have you leaning forward on the seat and awkwardly holding the wide and unhelpful handle bars.

I'm sure a 'proper' e bike is much nicer, but these things are beach cruiser style bikes which have all the cons associated with beach cruiser style bikes. They really should have been mountain bikes with nice comfortable handlebars and a balanced upright position.

The scooter on the other hand, all you do is stand up straight and twist the handle. No clumsy positioning, no jarring electric assist. They are pretty fun to ride assuming you've picked a relatively unabused scooter, otherwise that too is pretty terrible and dangerous to ride.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#113

Post by andrewla »

jefe_ wrote: post #88
andrewla wrote: post #29

Maybe I'm coming into this with low expectations; the best we have in NYC is the CitiBikes (by Motivate) that are strictly human powered, dock-based, and not cheap. But I love these scooters and would vote for any candidate for mayor that made it a priority to remove the blocks preventing these things from being issued. When I was in Venice on business, I used all of these scooters (except the 'Wheels', which to me l…

I visited D.C. recently and the National Mall is a decent 'padded room' for tourists to ride scooters, but even with large open areas and wide paths there were still numerous instances where scooters disrupted flow of pedestrians. I think Manhattan lacks the space necessary for tourists to ride the scooters, and everyone to store them, and introducing the scooters with existing strategies would quickly become a large…

To summarise -- people shouldn't be idiots.

Storing them and riding them on sidewalks are the biggest common complaints that people have; next to that it's mostly on people to operate them safely, and I'm okay with that. People are always going to ride them on sidewalks, but NYC is an east coast city, people will have no problem yelling at people to stop so I'm comfortable with social enforcement. There aren't enough police officers in the country to monitor every sidewalk that people use for two minutes. Improving bike lanes is a general issue that NYC is working on, and the first step to having any sort of electric scooter is to make them legal _at all_, since they are currently illegal to ride on the sidewalk, bike lanes, and streets.

As for storage, I think we can live with it -- people park bikes on sidewalks and most places there's room to put stuff that won't get in anyone's way. I'm not worried about tourists -- for a tourist a scooter/bike is a horrible way to get around the city (except in the big parks). And in the boroughs, tourists are not really an issue the way they are in Manhattan.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#114

Post by will_brown »

masklinn wrote: post #80
will_brown wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Without insurance, you are putting your financial life in jeopardy. Think about it! In addition to riders, if the scooter is a rental, I think there is a pretty solid claim to be made against the tech companies who scatter these scooters throughout cities (often times illegally) and allow them to be rented by anyone (with no training, no education of rules of the road, no offering of helmets, I’m not sure these thin…

> I think there is a pretty solid claim to be made against the tech companies who scatter these scooters throughout cities (often times illegally) I don't know about that, the device itself is not illegal, only its use on public way. And technically ignorance of the law is not a valid excuse.

It’s not just use of these devices on certain roadways, bike paths and sidewalks that may be illegal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction...but leaving them all over public spaces the way they do is also illegal in multiple jurisdictions (hence why city’s/counties began confiscating them and the scooter companies pulled out of a number of markets).

It’s not about ignorance of the law, if I get hurt by one I can sue both the rider and the scooter company.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#116

Post by asdff »

FussyZeus wrote: post #86
justaguyhere wrote: post #20

During the single day of this test, I found three Wheels with intentionally cut brake lines WTF is wrong with people? I understand these things are annoying and litter sidewalks, but intentionally cutting brakes to harm someone? Jeez, this is just shitty behavior

You know people give Americans shit for opposing anything 'public' but it's not a sentiment out of nowhere. Everything made for public use is abused and turned to complete shit. Not sure if it's a cultural thing or what.

American apathy is a real thing. People used to love public works and public institutions, then the funds supporting these public good endeavors were slowly slashed and looted in the second half of the 20th century, leading to a lack of maintenance and improvement all while the population was growing.

People look at a destroyed public bathroom and blame society, smirk at how shitty and nonfunctional the government is, and put on their blinders and move on with their lives. People don't look at the bathroom and say "we should hire more public custodians to support our city services." People even vote, and campaign against education funding measures.

We've reached a point where there is so much inertia to improve the smallest things, that's pretty scary.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#117

Post by sctb »

md2be wrote: post #66
andrewla wrote: post #29

Maybe I'm coming into this with low expectations; the best we have in NYC is the CitiBikes (by Motivate) that are strictly human powered, dock-based, and not cheap. But I love these scooters and would vote for any candidate for mayor that made it a priority to remove the blocks preventing these things from being issued. When I was in Venice on business, I used all of these scooters (except the 'Wheels', which to me l…

Selfish prick

Please stop breaking the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#118

Post by asdff »

md2be wrote: post #58
justaguyhere wrote: post #20

During the single day of this test, I found three Wheels with intentionally cut brake lines WTF is wrong with people? I understand these things are annoying and litter sidewalks, but intentionally cutting brakes to harm someone? Jeez, this is just shitty behavior

You know what shitty behavior is ? Riding on the sidewalks. Fucking with these scooters in any manner is a form of resistance.

How about instead of attempting to kill people you direct your petty rage at your local city council meeting and remind the good local government officials of their responsibility toward enforcing traffic ordinances that are already in the books.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#119

Post by dTal »

md2be wrote: post #64
davedx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, having ridden Birds around Paris at 25 km/h without ever considering this (I think they had lever brakes with cables too), this is terrifying. People are crazy.

The insane part is riding at 25 km/h without a sufficient breaking system, horn and or a license. Take a bus, walk or buy a motorcycle.

Why do you say "buy a motorcycle" instead of "buy a horn and a bike with disc brakes?" Is there something intrinsically wrong with going fast without at least a quarter ton of steel with you?

For that matter you can easily achieve 25 km/h on a normal unpowered bike. They don't seem to kill as many people as motorcycles though.

Re: I rode all the e-scooters, and most of them are awful except two

#120

Post by asdff »

masklinn wrote: post #41
yardie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have true dedicated bike lanes in Paris. Taken from the car lanes to reduce most streets to 2 lanes. The only things allowed on the sidewalks are people, pets, prams, and cafe tables and chairs.

> They have true dedicated bike lanes in Paris. Taken from the car lanes to reduce most streets to 2 lanes. The only things allowed on the sidewalks are people, pets, prams, and cafe tables and chairs. FWIW the only things allowed on bike lanes are bicycles[0] and tricycles. Motorised cycles (including e-scooters or ebikes) are not allowed and should be on the road (if they're legal at all, which e-scooters often are…

Is that only true in France? Bird and Lime capped their scooters to 15mph in my city so they can be considered bicycle-type vehicles by traffic law (and not a moped that you need to register and get a license plate and insurance for). The apps even recommend you stay in bike lanes wherever possible. When they first appeared out of thin air in my city, limes had the muscle to go 20mph (birds didn't have the oomph to break 15 unless going downhill).
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