Huawei Accused of Technology Theft • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#221

Post by echaozh » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

chlee wrote: post #124

fc373745 wrote: post #103

Seems like a lot of accusations against the Chinese and their tech is being force fed down our throats lately. Not surprising, since we are currently within a trade war and any opportunity to drive out Chinese competition would be taken - especially since Huawei would have been a huge competitor in the smartphone market (I heard their camera quality is currently the best). I"m skeptical, as some of these accusations…

Well, according to the US Department of Justice, China is behind 90% of espionage and industrial theft cases that it has handled over the past 7 years [1] To use a less biased source [2], SCMP (which is a HK newspaper now owned by Jack Ma, founder of Alibaba) mentioned: John Demers, assistant attorney general in the Justice Department’s national security division, said that by stealing trade secrets through computer…

If you try to treat every Chinese scientist and engineer as a spy, and prioritize the handling of cases related to China, 70% is not surprising. 100% is possible.

If 70% of robbery cases handled are by black people, is it because the black robs more, or is it because the DoJ is racist?

If 70% of espionage case handled are related to China, it must be China's bad. Huh.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#222

Post by tooltalk » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #126

choonway wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is cheating/stealing something you want to perpetuate (cuz revenge or something), or something you want to call out?

I just wanted to note that it is not limited to Chinese culture as the comment above states. And I have remembered another example: Apple has copied Xerox's Alto GUI for its own computer. Here is a quote from Jobs from the article [1]: > I was so blinded by the first thing they showed me, which was the graphical user interface. I thought it was the best thing I’d ever seen in my life. So Jobs just copied the idea of…

hate to be so nitpicking, but the whole idea of GUI had been around before Xerox and articulated by folks like Jef Raskin who later started the Mac project at Apple[1]:

> "My thesis in Computer Science, published in 1967, argued that computers should be all-graphic, that we should eliminate character generators and create characters graphically and in various fonts, that what you see on the screen should be what you get, and that the human interface was more important than mere considerations of algorithmic efficiency and compactness. This was heretical in 1967, half a decade before PARC started. Many of the basic principles of the Mac were firmly entrenched in my psyche. By the way, the name of my thesis was the "Quick-Draw Graphics System", which became the name of (and part of the inspiration for) Atkinson's graphics package for the Mac."

so yeah, Jobs might have seen the demonstration of it for the first time in his 1979 visit to PARC, but the creator of the Mac Raskin who was already working on Macintosh had already published such "heretic" idea as early as 1967. So no, it's not similar to what Huawei does.

[1] https://apple-history.com/gui_raskin1

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#223

Post by ineedasername » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #150

ineedasername wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without even getting into the "is personal piracy wrong" issue, it's pretty easy to draw a line between an individual downloading songs from pirate bay and a major corporation pirating IP wholesale and then making a business out of reselling the derivative products.

Without entering the entire debate, I was only intending to talk about the "Ask the plaintiff" style. Obviously the plaintiff is going to think something's wrong. That's what being the plaintiff is.

Sure, I can agree with that. Good point.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#224

Post by igravious » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #213

igravious wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus H. Christ. This is flat out jingoism, racism, xenophobia. > any Chinese company What?! Any and every? Are you crazy? > Huawei needs to be criticized, banned, ostracized and condemned in the strongest way possible. So basically the Salem Witch trials are alive and well again. Glad to know that's where we're at culturally. On what grounds? I have yet to be shown any tangible proof of their nefarious ways. When I…

I have audited over 200 Chinese companies in the semiconductor industry. Our entire process is different for China than for say a German or Japanese firms. IP theft is rampant in China, especially in semiconductor sector. Apple follows similar stringent selection process for their Chinese suppliers. This isn’t racism, please don’t accuse my intent and motive. Let’s talk about Chinese practices, their laws (or how the…

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=some%20of%20...

Three times you could have moderated or qualified your statements, three times you failed to do so and made blanket statements.

> China is lost its credibility a long time ago

The entire country?

> cannot blindly trust any Chinese company

Really? Any and every?

> The Chinese has mismanaged their “brand”

Again, all Chinese?

To my ears, that smacks of racism.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#225

Post by ephemeralism » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #214

lagadu wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.

I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creat…

The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#226

Post by dmix » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

jhanschoo wrote: post #201

fc373745 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So what happened? Were listening devices found at the Nortel Campus or not? The Department of National Defence keeps changing its story on that issue. >But after the Citizen article was published, Julie Di Mambro, spokeswoman for then Conservative Defence Minister Rob Nicholson, noted in a statement that, “security officials have assured us that they have not discovered any bugs or listening devices.” The first arti…

Note that it is possible that for political or national security reasons they decided not to provide a public statement for the matter. I've seen a news story reporting similarly about espionage victims unwilling to go public on the matter due to lack of benefit on it, though I don't think I can find it now.

If they did hide that information (which is still a big if) then they exposed many Canadian businesses to potential risky relationships with Huawei.

If people just went public with this earlier we could have ended the "Huawei isn't hacking people and stealing their data" charade. Everyone get's to act so outraged publicly today but that Nortel case started in the early 2000s:

> An internal security study by Nortel suggested that hackers had also been able to download research and development studies and business plans as far back as 2000.

It's good enough for intel agencies to quietly warn the big businesses when it's seems 'necessary' which seems like the new modus operandi, at least in the US.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#227

Post by mrkstu » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

ephemeralism wrote: post #225

mrkstu wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying. It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creat…

The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?

Noting that you didn't actually rebut any point I made...

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#228

Post by oefrha » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #227

ephemeralism wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US have been the instigator in quite a number of wars of aggression, with devastating consequences for the countries targeted and the people living in them. They constantly threaten to start new attacks. Meanwhile China builds roads and bridges and trains and cheap electronics. Is it really that hard to see why one is preferred over the other?

Noting that you didn't actually rebut any point I made...

You “really don’t get this POV”, and ephemeralism expanded on the POV you don’t get. Not to mention quite a few points of yours are heavily pushed narratives by the Western media based on thin or exaggerated evidence, when Western media are clearly not neutral on Chinese matter. Funny how you mentioned China “threatening” neighbors, and ephemeralism pointed out that the U.S. has started numerous wars (and bankrolled more), with boots on the ground.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#229

Post by choonway » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #207

choonway wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such professors... have another reason for failing half the class... They have to fail a number of students so that his class size maintains the numbers to avoid unwanted attention from the administration. If let's say the normal class size was about 20, but you only get about 15 new students each semester, so you fail 5 of them (or more accounting for dropouts) to make up the numbers.

That's not how it worked in Russia at the time (don't know how it is now). You chose the profession to pursue, the curriculum was fixed and tailored to that profession. The side effect of this is class sizes were fixed, since everyone in the cohort studied the same things. In fact for my profession there were several parallel cohorts. We started out with about 100 people in total, and by graduation it was something l…

well, if you’re talking about 30 years ago, it was probably a different world then. It probably was less of a certification than entry into a guaranteed job.

today, the only analog to such a selection criteria in Singapore would be combat pilot selection. Every year probably a few thousand apply, about 200 manage to pass medicals, aptitudes etc, to go basic wings and only about 15-20 make the final cut.

That doesn’t happen in academia today though. A certificate doesn’t guarantee you a job, fewer tenure positions available, school fees rising, less govt support, administration getting more powerful due to corporatization etc. The certificate is seen as default end product, not a trophy for the top performers.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#230

Post by y2kenny » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #197

katbyte wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.

I on the other hand, don't think China has the extrajudicial reach of the U.S. (yet?) & as an EU citizen I don't trust either the U.S., nor China, but I think my own government would not bow down to Chinese pressure, (i.e. to hand over info about me etc.), as they regularly do to American one, certainly not as easily. I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the C…

> I don't think Kim Dotcom would have a military style raid on his house in NZ done on behalf of the Chinese government.

perhaps not, but in Thailand, yes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/03/activist-li-xi...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/05/hong-kong-acti...