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Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

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Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#211

Post by lagadu »

katbyte wrote: post #112
codedokode wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their…

Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.

Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#212

Post by mark_l_watson »

fc373745 wrote: post #103

Seems like a lot of accusations against the Chinese and their tech is being force fed down our throats lately. Not surprising, since we are currently within a trade war and any opportunity to drive out Chinese competition would be taken - especially since Huawei would have been a huge competitor in the smartphone market (I heard their camera quality is currently the best). I"m skeptical, as some of these accusations…

I agree that the all out media blitz is ‘interesting.’

I read that out of 35 close European and Asian allies of the USA who have been pressured to not do business with Huawei, only 3 of them are cooperating with us. I am all for having secure infrastructure but the flip side is that we seem to be conditioning our allies to not cooperate with us. Long term, this is not good.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#213

Post by spectramax »

igravious wrote: post #196
spectramax wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people are trying to justify Huawei’s practices through asinine ways. Huawei needs to be criticized, banned, ostracized and condemned in the strongest way possible. China is lost its credibility a long time ago - the rest of the world cannot blindly trust any Chinese company. The Chinese has mismanaged their “brand” to reap short term benefits. It can only go so far. Doing business with honesty, integrity…

Jesus H. Christ. This is flat out jingoism, racism, xenophobia. > any Chinese company What?! Any and every? Are you crazy? > Huawei needs to be criticized, banned, ostracized and condemned in the strongest way possible. So basically the Salem Witch trials are alive and well again. Glad to know that's where we're at culturally. On what grounds? I have yet to be shown any tangible proof of their nefarious ways. When I…

I have audited over 200 Chinese companies in the semiconductor industry. Our entire process is different for China than for say a German or Japanese firms.

IP theft is rampant in China, especially in semiconductor sector.

Apple follows similar stringent selection process for their Chinese suppliers.

This isn’t racism, please don’t accuse my intent and motive. Let’s talk about Chinese practices, their laws (or how they bend them) and how these companies have a tremendous involvement with the Chinese government.

I have many Chinese friends, some amazing stories of people in China and have immersed myself in the Chinese culture for over 5 years and spending 400 nights in Chinese cities. Your accusation is uncalled for. Criticizing a country isn’t racism.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#214

Post by mrkstu »

lagadu wrote: post #211
katbyte wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because I trust those organizations (and even the American government) more the China as much as I hate to admit it. I don’t think you can really compare the companies.

Plenty of us would rather trust China than the US, mostly because China has less influence in our countries than the US does.

I really don't get this POV. If it was just about a random Chinese company, sure, whatever, but Huawei though is 99% likely passing to the Chinese state, which is a geo-political entity that has more than a passing resemblance to some Hitler/Mao/Stalin hybrid that is fairly terrifying.

It is rapidly scaling its military technology and reach, threatening neighbors over competing claims in the South China Sea, re-creating its own version of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere via the Belt and Road initiative and China 2025, interning its own citizens by the millions into re-education camps, forcing spying by its own citizens overseas by threatening family members, introducing a 'social credit' system to force not only self-censorship, but active promotion of its policies by its citizenry in order to not lose 'privileges' like taking the train.

I understand that the Trumpian version of the US is annoying in many ways, but the idea that we let China and Chinese companies dominated by it's government (they literally have to pay Party minders to keep them in line) have unconstrained access to its geopolitical foes infrastructure beggars belief.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#215

Post by geofft »

codycraven wrote: post #171
geofft wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The passive voice here is fascinating. Huawei did something! What did they do? They got accused. Who is accusing them? AKHAN Semiconductor (and the FBI), a small company in Illinois whose primary product is these diamond-coated screens. Past their founder, the second person on their about page is their "Vice President of Government Affairs;" the third person listed on their about page is their "Global Security and In…

I had a friend at Huawei about a year ago tell me how they had lawyers come in and prep them on the exact procedures they should follow in the event of an FBI raid. This was well before I heard anything in the news about China, Huawei, etc tensions. Knowing this, I personally give quite a bit of weight to any accusation against the company. I have a hard time justifying in my mind that a company operating legitimatel…

The Economist reported on the "techno-nationalism" driving fear of Huawei in their August 4, 2012 cover story. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2012/08/04/whos-afraid-of-... This has been a long time brewing, though there's been a significant uptick in recent months of worries about China, e.g., Bloomberg's October article where they made up lies about Supermicro.

It makes perfect sense to me that Huawei would prep its employees on how to deal with a raid, and being prepared for the police is not solely the action of the guilty. It tells us that Huawei is afraid of the FBI. It does not tell is that Huawei is afraid of the FBI because Huawei are bad guys.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#216

Post by tooltalk »

cherioo wrote: post #154
jxramos wrote: post #20

Do these companies ever actually innovate and build social/intellectual capital beyond reverse engineering skills or are they gaming to pollute the waters so much that they risk sacrificing the golden goose to whom they steal ideas? This all sort of reminds me of the quip communism or socialism only works until those in charge spend all the money of those who are productive. If IP and the R&D expenses never become pr…

Yes. One of which is the innovation they had done recently in 5G, where China scored 34% of essential patent [1]. Except, we all know what US decides to do when another superpower is threatening it. Technology are always developed this way: learn (sometimes not so nicely), catch up, and then innovate. An random country can't innovate itself to a 5G/technology super power immediately. What I never get from this accusa…

> why aren't these company suing to ban Huawei sales if the copying is so blatant. ...

First, Huawei's sales in the US already is quite limited to have any impact. Second, you can't win any sales or import injunction on 5G SEP violation.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#217

Post by matz1 »

spectramax wrote: post #172
matz1 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing works. If the benefit > risk, they should do it.

What an insane argument. Murder, Theft, Deceit, Assault, Terrorism “works” as well. Being a crow in the population of doves has short term benefits to the individual, the crow in this case, but soon more crows will pop up and the societal balance turns into chaos. I’m sure we need not argue this obvious fact. Are you really condoning that stealing OK if it works? I’m speechless.

>Murder, Theft, Deceit, Assault, Terrorism “works”.

Depending on the context, yes. Murder, for example, if I'm in a remote island and someone is going to kill me and they are weaker than me, then yes murdering them first works, the benefit > risk.

Likewise,in the context of Huawei, stealing works.

Note that I'm not saying the US shouldn't do anything to prevent/retaliate.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#218

Post by intended »

chlee wrote: post #5

Wall Street Journal has recently published an article [1] detailing some of the most high profile technology thefts and espionage related to Huawei. According to the article, here's a list of thefts and espionage attributed to Huawei, employees of Huawei, or people related to Huawei. 1. Stealing tech at tradeshows: On a summer evening in 2004, as the Supercomm tech conference in Chicago wound down, a middle-aged Chin…

that’s an impressive laundry list of blatant transgressions that make even Uber look good in comparison.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#219

Post by intended »

aswanson wrote: post #37
walrus01 wrote: post #21

It's well known in the telecom/internet infrastructure business that Huawei: a) bugged the hell out of Nortel's ottawa area offices, both physically, by rootkit, and by getting their own people hired to physically smuggle out documents and design data b) Copied the entire DWDM / optical transport product line c) Released a nearly identical product a few years later, and sold it at a ridiculously low price, effectivel…

But, I mean, other than that, what do you have on them?

The article by the wsj seems to be more than sufficient.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#220

Post by whoevercares »

yarg wrote: post #161
riffraff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say China has 20 times less creativity than the west. This means still more creativity than most western countries because of their size.

That's really not how statistics works though. Imagine a pair of overlapping normal distributions ( https://www.google.com/search?q=overlapping+normal+distribut... ), the ratio between the two is far from fixed, and the further of centre you go, the greater the discrepancy. My suspicion is that an authoritarian regime is likely to offset the centre of the creativity distribution. But that's not the full extent of wha…

Have you ever attended top tier AI/CV/graphics conf? You should go once
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