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Stadia Founder's Edition

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Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#381

Post by lasagnaphil »

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #315
atq2119 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely sure, but you may have misunderstood my point. It's not about fairness, it's about whether it is physically possible to play the game on the same level of skill. Talking about shooters, in the traditional multiplayer setup input-to-display latency isn't actually a concern, because input-to-display doesn't go over the network at all. When you move your mouse, the display update loop doesn't contain a…

If you have If it creeps up into the 40's and 50's though, it will for sure.

I don't think so - the reason I don't use VSync for first person shooters is because it introduces 1 frame (8ms ~ 16ms depending on your frame rate) of input lag. It really feels laggy when I try to move my mouse and aim.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#382

Post by lasagnaphil »

Jabbles wrote: post #96
dx87 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt twitch shooters would be playable. I've used steam's in home streaming, and platformers that require precise jumping accuracy are basically unplayable because even a fraction of a second hiccup in latency can get you killed. Even simple platformers like Crash Bandicoot can get frustratingly difficult to play over a stream. If the service gets popular enough, we might see developers making changes to help out…

even a fraction of a second This is meaningless unless you can be more precise.

I usually notice input lag in first person shooters when I have V-sync / fast sync on. V-sync introduces about 1 frame of input lag (0.5 frames for fast sync), so 8~16ms is just enough to throw myself off. I would guess platformers and fighting games would have similar kinds of input lag problems.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#383

Post by krzyk »

paxys wrote: post #179

The fact that you have to pay full-price for games AND rely on a cloud service makes this a nonstarter for me. The only way this could work is with a good subscription gaming model like Xbox Game Pass or PS Now. Or you give me a guarantee that I can take my games to another platform once Google inevitably shuts this down.

This is great, I don't like subscription. I prefer to pay upfront price and play the game how long I want for free.

Last time I used a subscription bases streaming service for 6 months until I finished Witcher 3. When I saw how much I paid I started thinking that it would be better to create a gaming rig.

But with such proposition from Google I can't wait to have it available in my country.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#385

Post by krzyk »

what_ever wrote: post #49
haunter wrote: post #44

>We aren’t in your country yet Sounds about right. By the time it comes to EU it will be abandoned by Google and shut down in a year or so

> The Founder’s Edition will launch in United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. Disc: Googler.

Still the same, I'm in Poland and they are not there yet :(

From the list I see that they don't have any new EU states and they don't have even Portugal.

Which is quite strange, because internet speed there on average much better (fiber is quite popular) than in the old EU.

I think the issue is lack of google servers in those countries.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#386

Post by islon »

nathankunicki wrote: post #291
djanogo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is Valve's only business, if Steam shuts down that mean whole company is in trouble or about to go bankrupt or bought out. Google can shutdown Stadia because VP changed or Director got promoted to another part of business and nobody is there to sell this product internally - which means it gets shut down.

I can play NES games from 35 years ago despite the fact that Nintendo has ceased manufacturing the console and publishing the games. As soon as Steam decides to shut down (and it will one day, be it tomorrow, or 30 years from now, those games are no longer playable). Nothing lasts forever.

If steam shuts down some cracker/hacker will find a way to disable the drm.

Almost every game has a pirated version in some torrent site.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#387

Post by krzyk »

eckmLJE wrote: post #18

How are they overcoming the jarring effects of input latency? Even 20-30ms in input lag would turn a lot of people off, or is this primarily for casual games where this won't matter too much?

I played Witcher 3 with ~45ms ping. I didn't feel any side effects, it was like playing locally (except for compression artifacts).

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#388

Post by Dylan16807 »

shmerl wrote: post #370
Dylan16807 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible, but complex simulations have a lot of room to grow before they stop fitting on desktops. Go from one to ten threads and you still fit on a mid-high end CPU.

That's the point. If they are pushing it to the cloud, they can at least use it for something desktops can't handle. If they have a cluster, let them make some game with AI that can utilize it, instead of making it a replacement for something desktops can already do well.

What I mean is, they could vastly expand it and still not need a cloud. They would have to vastly vastly expand it, which is possible but much less likely.

And for AI you can already handle that in the cloud if you actually want to. The innovations you can get on Stadia are mostly tied to rendering capabilities.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#389

Post by Kiro »

xvector wrote: post #379
Kiro wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once Google inevitably shuts this down Can you stop with the trolling? The "Google shuts everything down" meme is getting really tiresome, especially when it's mostly false.

I’m sorry, but the meme would not exist if it was not a reality. Google has a history of shutting down products that don’t reach a critical mass they find appropriate - regardless of how good the product is, or how essential it is to the users that adopted it. Inbox, anyone? It is perfectly sensible to be mistrustful of Google services, especially new ones. It’s also pretty disingenuous to accuse someone of trolling…

Saying Stadia will "inevitably" be shut down is an exaggeration and trolling regardless. It implies every single product Google launches shuts down, which is obviously completely incorrect.

Re: Stadia Founder's Edition

#390

Post by Strom »

haolez wrote: post #12

I think that an underestimated benefit of game streaming is anti-cheat. It would benefit a lot games like Fortnite and Pubg.

There are undoubtedly major benefits in the war against cheaters by completely removing user access to the underlying system. However I think there are two fundamental points to keep in mind on why it's not going to be an ultimate solution.

1) Unless cross-platform play is forbidden or the game is exclusively streamed-only, the cheaters will just use a different platform and will still ruin your game the same old way. It's the cheater's platform of choice that matters.

2) Games are some of the least security conscious pieces of software out there [1], primarily written in C++. There are bugs, lots of bugs. Process-takeover enabling bugs. I'm sure Google sandboxes the game to protect their systems, however cheaters only need access to the game process to enable most of their desires. Yes this would raise the bar in how easy it would be to cheat. Average Joe Cheat Engine users would be gone, but more skilled cheat makers will continue business as usual and their released cheats will do the exploits hidden from the actual people doing the cheating.

Bonus: See this cute hack that injects flappy bird into Super Mario World. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0

--

[1] Even AAA developers are clueless about threat models. Games like Tom Clancy's The Division [2] and Fallout 76 [3] are multiplayer games that put extreme trust into the client. Trust that nobody would modify their script files, trust that the client is always telling the honest truth.

[2] http://web.archive.org/web/20170611084112/http://gafferongam...

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/9u71m1/get_ready_for_...

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