The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#711

Post by patentatt » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #335

nugget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

I like to look at this from the perspective of "how are we going to organize society given further technological advancement in the far future" and how do we get there. Ignoring the endgames that come after the cessation of traditional human existence - either robotics replacing organics completely or mastery of genetics leading to the engineering of super-intelligent custom lifeforms to replace us - we are almost al…

Why would child rearing be limited to women?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#712

Post by widowlark » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

everyone wrote: post #568

Swizec wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One workaholic to another: There’s plenty of people in the US, even in places like San Francisco, who have balanced lives and don’t spend their whole time working. Put in their 8 or 10 hours per day at a startup then go off and do fun hobbies like standup comedy, singing in church choirs, or just binging Netflix. Hell, my girlfriend has zero sidehustle and she does just great for herself. Working all day erryday is a…

8 hours is a full days work. Most people only have a couple of hours to themselves after working 8 hours + commuting, buying/preparing/eating food, ablutions, taking care of various chores etc. Is 10 the norm where you are? That is very saddening. Where are you btw? During/after the industrial revolution many workers fought hard and died just to get the the working day down to 8 hours (and not 12 or more which is wha…

I work 10 hours a day, but only 4 days a week

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#713

Post by esoterica » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

jriot wrote: post #574

esoterica wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 is very young. You’re not going to find many urban, college-educated 25 year olds willing to start a family that early.

25 is not young. I was married for 4 years (still married at 34 to the same woman), a one-year-old daughter, working as an air traffic controller for 7 years, deployed to the ME, stationed at three different bases, traveled to 12 countries (at the time), completed undergrad, and half-way through graduate school. The age appearing young is because society likes to make excuses on why people haven't gotten their act to…

Having a baby and getting married has nothing to do with getting your act together. If anything, having a baby before 25 is strongly correlated with not having your shit together.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#714

Post by rb808 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #348

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

Human nature is really weird. I can totally relate to everything you've written, and at the same time, I, as a father and husband, would love to experience a week like that really badly every now and then.

I think its really important to have your own time in a family. I think its a bit weird to go on holiday by yourself but that is maybe the best way. My wife goes home with the children for a while in the Summer and I'm left by myself and its really great - even when you just learn that you miss them.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#715

Post by tachyonbeam » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:58 PM UTC

oneshot908 wrote: post #652

I relocated out of the bay area in 2016-2017 and it was the happiest year of my adult life. I think Silicon Valley has a zero sum culture and having returned here for personal reasons but otherwise against my best judgment, I cannot wait to GTFO for keeps. I am really really good (perhaps top 10 or so worldwide) at one thing, and pretty good at a couple other things. If I didn't have that, I think I would feel utterl…

> I am really really good (perhaps top 10 or so worldwide) at one thing, and pretty good at a couple other things. If I didn't have that, I think I would feel utterly worthless in 2019.

With the internet, our kind of global culture and the kind of "attention economy" that we have, there is a bit of a culture where if you're not the best at something, and the first to do it, you're irrelevant. The world has changed, and so have we. A lot of the people leading the tech field today were kids in the 1980s and 1990s, just playing with computers for fun. In the pre-internet days, you couldn't just publish code online and immediately get a lot of attention for it. Sure, you'd be proud of yourself if you did something cool, but showing people might involve getting someone to come to your house.

I struggle with this too. When I work on a personal project, I want it to have impact, to be world class if possible. That creates pressure. I sometimes forget to just try and have fun. Over a year ago, I had to abandon my main open source project because it was reaching about 8 regular contributors, and just reviewing pull requests after coming home from work felt like another job on top of my job and I was like... Fuck no, I can't do this, when I come home from work, I actually need to rest and have a life of my own.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#716

Post by mieseratte » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #694

toby- wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is no longer what these terms mean in common parlance. (There is no arbiter of language; words are imbued with meaning through usage. People use "first world" and "third world" quite differently now than during the Cold War.)

These words are no longer used in common parlance at all. Now people use "developing nation" and "developed nation," and "second world" never evolved to mean "somewhere less poor than dirt-floor huts but less rich than London". About once a year I see someone make that mistake; it's not common, just a mistake. But agreed, there's no arbiter of language for English, and we all understood the original poster, which is…

> These words are no longer used in common parlance at all. > it's not common, just a mistake.

What's the difference between "common use" and "mistaken use" exactly? I've heard phrases like "third-world [pejorative]" thrown around here and there over the years. Is that a mistake or a change in common use over time?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#717

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #189

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

Bringing a child into the world to increase my own personal happiness, when nothing else I could do has such a direct and massive climate impact, is not something I can justify personally. Not to mention, my child would have to live to see the impacts of climate change. There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

> There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

Two comments. First, within evolution (true, a brutal and inhumane theory), the point of life is exactly to survive and reproduce. It is literally unnatural to deliberately choose to not have children (unless you don't believe in evolution).

Second, I presume that you don't mean for this to be taken to the point of nobody having children, that is, to the extinction of the human race. I get the impression that some eco-types think that would be a good thing; I deeply disagree.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#718

Post by throwaway666666 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

JimboOmega wrote: post #693

paganel wrote: post #644

> Especially now that Uber has a STFU option I never understood why people are so against talking to the people that give them a ride. I once was in a very rough spot in my life and talking with taxi-drivers almost daily about the most trivial stuff (weather, politics, traffic) used to give me a very healthy reprieve from the black thoughts I used to have.

As a woman, there are definitely times I don't want to deal with a driver hitting on me. It happens annoyingly frequently, and it's this delicate social situation that requires more mental effort to negotiate than I want to give it. Friendly conversation (with men and women both) is fine and I've engaged in plenty. But if a driver is too busy telling me just how beautiful I am and as a result drives me to the cargo p…

Wow it must be so hard for you to have to deal with people talking with you and trying to get to know you better!

These men attempting to talk to you are literally devils!

Obviously there needs to be a law passed that if you're a man, you need written permission to be allowed to speak to a woman before you do so, otherwise you should be jailed.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#719

Post by marshray » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #658

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

I felt very similar but at the age of 20 I shut myself indoors and it's been like that ever since. Everyone has long forgot about me. I turned 31 an hour ago. I think I just got used to it. I was lucky that I inherented a small flat, although in bad condition and location. I score some freelance gigs time to time to keep myself alive. I have tried online communities or friends so to speak but I don't really get it ho…

You don't sound too thrilled about the way things are going. You can change it if you want.

Volunteering to help with for some in-person activity can provide that essential social connection.

Also, consider talking to a professional. They evaluate situations like the one you describe all the time.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#720

Post by beat » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

aspenmayer wrote: post #656

beat wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last night, I said something to my spouse about a conversation I had with a "single serving friend", and she didn't know what I was talking about. I said it was a Fight Club reference, then went farther and explained that I had a five minute conversation with a complete stranger (just walking down the street together), and I had to explain this idea to her, because she's an introvert and would never, ever engage in a…

How do you come to meet someone who seemingly doesn't have any way of meeting or interacting with others they aren't already acquainted with? How do you come to marry someone before you have this conversation to discover their lived experience of social interactions is so radically different to your own? No judgment, just a strange backstory that seems to raise more questions than it answers.

My spouse meets people entirely through her existing social networks - me, her existing friends, her dance community, and work. She doesn't just strike up conversations with complete strangers, it makes her very uncomfortable. Whereas I'm an extrovert and happily start or engage in conversations with strangers all the time.

She and I met back in the day through her boyfriend at the time (interestingly, we're still friends - he lives in town and we see him regularly). And she met him through her college roommate, freshman year.