The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#571

Post by paulmd » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

impendia wrote: post #532

merpnderp wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still in awe that starting off your life with massive student loans is a thing. This is almost always a very poor decision as there are tons of cheap regional schools where a part time job can mostly get you through school with very little debt. And yet we've got a generation of new adults starting life under crushing debt that purchased them something of dubious value (an expensive degree versus a cheap one). My…

> tons of cheap regional schools Where? I teach at the University of South Carolina, where tuition and fees are over $10K a year. To my knowledge, the same is true of all the other four-year colleges in the state (Clemson, College of Charleston, Lander, USC Upstate, The Citadel etc.) Not as outrageous as private school tuition, but it's still a very substantial burden, especially when you factor in food and housing a…

The "one weird trick to graduate on the cheap! colleges hate him!" of choice these days is community college.

Have fun trying to get your credits to transfer. I had trouble getting credits to transfer from the Air Force Academy to a state college. They want you to do them there. They would take them as generic credit hours but it was an uphill battle to get them to actually satisfy graduation requirements (which are the real thing that keeps you from graduating, you will already have enough credit hours).

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#572

Post by rjsw » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

daemonk wrote: post #94

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Perhaps the more interesting question is whether the traditional nuclear family is the "optimal" mode of human society? Is the unhappiness that we may be observing with the decline of family a product of this transition period from traditional family structure to individualism? Is our current society just not well equipped yet to handle this mode of living? Maybe in 50 years, this will become the norm and people who…

I suspect that it is the best model we have found so far. I also wonder whether monogamy is the cause of modern society rather than a result of it.

There seems to be a pretty good correlation between which countries are most dominant today and those that encouraged monogamy in the recent past.

Maybe the differences in IQ seen between different groups are caused by how well those societies manage to mix up genes and not down to skin colour.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#573

Post by LASR » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

jxramos wrote: post #555

Swizec wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One workaholic to another: There’s plenty of people in the US, even in places like San Francisco, who have balanced lives and don’t spend their whole time working. Put in their 8 or 10 hours per day at a startup then go off and do fun hobbies like standup comedy, singing in church choirs, or just binging Netflix. Hell, my girlfriend has zero sidehustle and she does just great for herself. Working all day erryday is a…

I always appreciated those jobs postings that explicitly mention not working crazy hours. I should keep a journal of such statements. It's an interesting phenomena.

Well with early-stage start-ups, it’s really not about what’s on the JD for an opening. Anyone can write a few words about being strictly 40hr weeks.

The reality is usually different, and it’s not because the founders are intentionally deceiving their early hires. The problem is that in-spite of them working 19 hour days everyday, there is just a ton of work you have to take on to keep the boat afloat.

I cofounded a company like this. Despite our best efforts to keep sane working hours, we just weren’t successful at that. Luckily, we were acquired within a year of me adopting a 19hours/day everyday schedule.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#574

Post by jriot » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #451

beat wrote: post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

25 is very young. You’re not going to find many urban, college-educated 25 year olds willing to start a family that early.

25 is not young. I was married for 4 years (still married at 34 to the same woman), a one-year-old daughter, working as an air traffic controller for 7 years, deployed to the ME, stationed at three different bases, traveled to 12 countries (at the time), completed undergrad, and half-way through graduate school. The age appearing young is because society likes to make excuses on why people haven't gotten their act together.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#575

Post by pault » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

DowsingSpoon wrote: post #541

The term “third world” does not mean something like “third rate.” The first world is the Western bloc, under the influence of the USA. The second world is the Eastern bloc, under the influence of the USSR. The third world is everyone else. I think we should stop using these terms.

I agree those terms are antiquated, and I suggest "developed" and "developing" instead.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#576

Post by filoleg » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

hi5eyes wrote: post #553

blfr wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, too, can strike up a conversation with a total stranger at a bus station and it doesn't have to feel weird. It is, however, likely to be short because people are so unused to it in the atomized west that, if you don't carry the whole conversation, they simply won't know what to say.

its definitely fucking weird to randomly strike up a convo with a random at a bus station, fuck are you on?

At a bus stop, yeah, it is kinda strange, cause people are usually there because they have to be, not because they want to. At a hackerspace, at a bar, at a book club, music concert, etc. it isn’t weird all. Some of the best friends I’ve made over the past couple of years (and i mean real friends, the ones you hang out with multiple times a week, go on trips, etc), it almost always was through some kind of spontaneous contact. I guess it depends on where you live. I’ve found (anecdotal evidence incoming) that it is much easier to do so in big cities with a lot of people that are not car-centric.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#577

Post by joaomacp » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #414

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human nature is really weird. I can totally relate to everything you've written, and at the same time, I, as a father and husband, would love to experience a week like that really badly every now and then.

It shows that what people think they want is a silly, shifting goalpost and that "happiness" is an untenable, fictional concept the mind uses to distract itself on its meaningless quest to stay alive. Insofar as it's possible, not taking your feelings or life seriously is the best tactic I've come to use. But I'm relatively young, so I might be wrong. And it's pretty vacuous: so, what, don't act on chasing happiness?…

Thanks for this comment. I had once reached this conclusion (everything is meaningless anyway, stop worrying about being single&lonely), but had forgotten it.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#578

Post by JohnBooty » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #5

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

A good longer play to bust out of that is to start working out of an independent cafe. Find one with a lower rate of laptop jockeys but that still has a couple. Bounce around until you find one that feels right: a good amount of regulars, people doodling, and bullshitting with baristas. Show up a couple times a week, drop into the odd conversation. And be ready to say “anyone want to grab a beer” come quitting time.…

This is great advice! (I also agree with OP's sad lack of connection in America. It is there but it is work to find it sometimes)

Also great:

Volunteering. You're guaranteed to meet some good people because these are other people that are interested in (1) working together (2) helping people (3) donating their time. The very worst-case scenario is that you don't make friends, but have helped somebody in need. =)

Sports. Grown-up recreational sports are nothing like the (often hostile) world of sports you might remember as a kid. Generally very supportive places. Co-ed leagues tend to be more easygoing. If you're a beginner, pay for some lessons. For example... lots of tennis coaches out there. If you are healthy enough to move around you can learn to play a pretty decent game of tennis in not much time and with less $$$ than you'd spend on a new Xbox. Obvious direct and indirect benefits as well.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#579

Post by epiphanitus » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #462

sizzle wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has your son been doing since turning 18? Did you try to lay out a foundation in teaching him life skills/weaning him off of financial support so he can learn the value of a dollar? I understand disabilities and disorders can hold adult children back, if that isn't the case I'm curious where things went off the rails, as a soon to be first time dad myself. This stuff worries me, that regardless of all the invest…

Pretty severe autism. The main reason we never just kicked him out is because he really can't function on his own. He'd suck at being homeless. That was hard for me to get used to, as I've been on my own since I was 18. And his sister moved out as soon as it was practical for her, although she lives just minutes away and we see her at least weekly. And if there's one piece of parenting advice I can offer, it's this..…

Tip for a fellow traveler: you might want to check out the Autism Advantage program. They give job training specialized for autistic adults so they can work in the SV.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#580

Post by s_k_ » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #514

Man, the older I get the more I realize that life is always a balancing act. I immigrated from a 3rd world country (probably a 2nd world now) 20 years ago with my parents. Both of my parents were engineers and both were paid about once a year by their employer because nobody had any money. So we were broke and poor my entire childhood. And yet we always had friends visiting us. There were always celebrations. Seemed…

>We have everything we ever wanted and absolutely no happiness. I guess this is the difference between generations and why they struggle most of the time understanding each other. What older generation dreamed about and worked hard to get the younger generation takes for granted, and that is not necessarily something bad. I would argue that it's mostly good, because that's why people have ambitions/goals/dreams about something which previously thought was impossible. Hence pioneering in different fields of science, entrepreneurship, social interaction, etc. This is basic evolution, yet we struggle to understand it. Old organisms in almost every aspect of life are hard to change. That's why the nature takes care of it time so naturally. Most parents don't realize that they don't have to love what their children do in order to simply love them and let them live their dream.