The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#91

Post by weberc2 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #42

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

This isn’t a uniquely female phenomenon. The expectation has always been for men to trade time with family for time at work.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#92

Post by dang » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

nvusuvu wrote: post #76

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/conten... Key take away: By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equa…

Please don't take HN threads in this direction, however helpful your intention. It can only lead to a flamey mess.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#93

Post by bendbro » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

mial wrote: post #35

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

It can also be linked to the rise of individualism, an essential part of the capitalist ideology.

Seems unlikely: why do staunch conservatives reproduce far better than liberals?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#94

Post by daemonk » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Perhaps the more interesting question is whether the traditional nuclear family is the "optimal" mode of human society?

Is the unhappiness that we may be observing with the decline of family a product of this transition period from traditional family structure to individualism? Is our current society just not well equipped yet to handle this mode of living? Maybe in 50 years, this will become the norm and people who choose to live alone will have alternative sources of happiness.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#95

Post by inscionent » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #10

Avshalom wrote: post #4

Yup, sounds about right, decry the death of the multi generational home then decry boomerang kids then decry people living alone.

Yeah the people pushing all these different ideologies basically engineered a culture to be like this. With various ideologies replacing religion (which are themselves really modern religions) that don't really work out the implications of their ideas in any sort of consistent system... instead down with this and down with that, and sure individually those things might be bad but they form some sort of coherent syste…

Humans, not thinking abut the ramifications of their actions since, well, forever. Could these changes and fractures be compared to past religious reformation movements? Reformers always like denouncing things.

Luckily for future generations humans are fairly adaptable and I'm sure the rich will be just fine.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#96

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #43

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Feminism has brought about a lot of changes, but I don't think we can lay this one at the feet of women trying to escape their compulsory reliance on unreliable, selfish, and inconsiderate men. Most people are alone because they don't prioritize the families they already have (parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, etc). They graduate high school, attend college in another state, move to another city far away for…

[deleted]

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#97

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #42

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

> I'm not sure what the answer is

Better support for working parents.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#98

Post by zamfi » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

klipt wrote: post #38

parrellel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not feminism, the establishment of the discrete nuclear family as a social and labor unit divorced from kinship groups. When you've already pared down the web of fundamental relations to 2-5 person cells, your already only a step away from complete individual social collapse. That doesn't even touch on the breakdown of community organizations (churches, fraternal orders, what have you).

Arguably this all comes down to economics/capitalism. Unpaid favors to family aren't measured in GDP and can't be taxed. Breaking down extended family into individual workers is good for the economy. Having stay-at-home moms work while sending their kids to group childcare is also more economically efficient. What's good for the economy may not be good for individual humans though. We aren't homo economicus: https://…

I think you're right that it comes down to economics/capitalism. But I doubt it's a conspiracy to boost GDP and tax revenue, as you allude by saying "is good for the economy". I think you're closer to the mark with "economically efficient" -- what seems a more likely explanation to me is comparative advantage:

Sure, grandpa might be a great primary caregiver while mom and dad are at work, but he might also not be. Chances are low he has any training in early childhood education, though he may have raised his own kids -- but he's tautologically not as young as he used to be. But he might have training in law, or medicine, and might plausibly be very valuable as a consultant for the hours that he's instead watching little Ephra.

The licensed daycare in the neighborhood, by contrast, is set up to care for children, and -- depending on grandpa's hourly rate -- might do so at a lower cost. The folks there are (maybe?) trained in early childhood education, and have years of experience handling 1-2 year olds, or 2-3 year olds, or 3-4 year olds, at least compared with grandpa who might only have a year or two of experience with each.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#99

Post by patentatt » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #83

nugget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

> I'm not sure what the answer is, Drop the implicit assumption that only the mother needs to give up her career to raise a child. For some reason, nobody sheds tears over successful entrepreneur, lawyer, and doctor men who are unable to make that work with raising children. A pregnancy lasts 9 months. Raising a child takes ~200 months.

Maybe the implicit assumption is that society and work culture shouldn’t punish parents so harshly?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#100

Post by camelNotation » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

zaccus wrote: post #88

camelNotation wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminism has brought about a lot of changes, but I don't think we can lay this one at the feet of women trying to escape their compulsory reliance on unreliable, selfish, and inconsiderate men. Most people are alone because they don't prioritize the families they already have (parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, etc). They graduate high school, attend college in another state, move to another city far away for…

A lot of people aren't leaving home to "follow their dreams", they're leaving home because there just aren't any jobs there anymore. Jobs of any sort are scarce outside urban areas.

A lot of people are, though. I realize there are people who have no choice because life sucks and work is hard to find, but I'm not criticizing them. I'm criticizing the ones that choose to leave when they don't need to. We are all uprooted sometimes, but the goal should be to place those roots back in the ground and rebuild what was lost, not float around from place to place with no sense of identity or home.