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macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

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Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#291
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to install and configure development environments is an important skill in general, but I'm not convinced having those skills as a prerequisite for exploring programming as a newbie is at all valuable.

On macOS the best config-free entry to programming is Swift and Swift Playgrounds. Everything else can have config and shell hell for further more advanced learning purposes.

You still have to download Xcode, of course.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides your tone and language being unwelcome here... you're just factually wrong. Comparing in Google Trends, it's very clear brew is the "de facto" package manager, and has been for years: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

Talking about factually wrong... If you look at the full picture: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0... "DarwinPorts" was originally released in 2002. You can see it trending and then the name change which occurred in 2006. It's been on a downward trend ever since. Even thought Homebrew was released in 2009, it trends relatively constant for the entire dataset. In fact, from 2009 onward, you…

While I might disagree with the choices it makes, Homebrew is almost certainly significantly more popular than MacPorts.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#293
post #288
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just pack a statically compiled Ruby interpreter with Homebrew. Not very complex or novel. Disadvantage: install becomes more bloated (larger size).

Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.

> Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.

It could just as well still remain a one-liner. Every system Homebrew is installed on has Bash installed (not the latest, but still).

Instead of

> /usr/bin/ruby -e "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in...

It could become

> curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/master/in... | bash

With the install script containing a payload containing the current Ruby script plus a Ruby interpreter. Still a "one liner".

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#294
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why? Yeah there were times with damn node-gym not compiling for whatever reason. But nowadays things run pretty smooth.

Besides paths, Http_proxy settings on enterprise networks is a major pita.

i'm still using cntlm for that (as a proxy in front of the enterprise proxy) : http://cntlm.sourceforge.net/

(sourceforge is the main link, probably best to visit with ublock origin enabled)

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is unusable in multi-user environments as it installs packages as your "ordinary" user instead of root.

It's called a personal computer for a reason. Laptop sharing is not a really a thing for professionals (or at least not that common). So, complete non issue for the vast majority of the target audience (i.e. developers and techies). Actually, not requiring root permissions is a feature and not a bug as it reduces the scope of what these tools can do at the OS level, which is a good thing for software you blindly inst…

> not requiring root permissions is a feature

Not requiring root to install software to system directories is a security bug, not a feature. In a practical sense Homebrew elevates you to root and in the process messes up the permissions of a /usr/local, which, being on $PATH, opens users up to vulnerabilities.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#296
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Apple be in the wrong simply being opinionated about using Homebrew?

MacPorts is sponsored by Apple, or at least used to be.

TBH it's weird they haven't built their own

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#297
post #274
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I care since my desktop computer is not multi-user? Also I configured Homebrew to install it's packages to ~/Applications, problem solved?

Basically it means if someone has user access on a Mac with Homebrew (with default settings), they also have root. So a remote hole in, say, Safari, means your entire system is compromised. (That said, I actually use Homebrew.)

They don't quite have root per se, but they have a functional elevation of privileges if some some other software has a bug in it with regards to pulling binaries from $PATH, which is quite common.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#298
post #258
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain further why you think Homebrew should not be used?

Maybe Google "why not use homebrew" * installs into /usr/local/bin, which is now a protected path with SIP. Why do you think Apple itself protected themselves from Homebrew? So what do Homebrew users do now? Disable SIP. Sigh * installs with users permissions, not a seperate user. /usr/local/bin is now open for every pwner. The very first path, not just ~/bin. Never trust a newbie package manager which takes over you…

/usr/local/bin is not under SIP, /usr/local is. Homebrew now changes the permissions and ownership of the directories inside of this to get around this (which is functionally the same thing, but I figured that I'd point this out to you before someone else did since your points are otherwise valid).

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#299
post #132
post #76

Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…

I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change. They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.

And it's to be appreciated. When installing my own Python version, I'm worried it might interfere with system tools that might be written in it.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#300
post #244
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The young, bored but smart kid in an elementary or middle school tinkering with her computer and finding something to do. She doesn't need a book or a tutorial to tell her the "right" way. She experiments, only guided by her curiosity.

The point is that Python 2.7x is being EOL'd now . The Python that person will likely encounter in the very near future will be Python3.

per the link, macOS won't include any scripting languages by default in the future. So the bored user will be less likely to stumble upon an intresting programming language on their macs.
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