Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees • Hacker News Board

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#51

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #45

freewilly1040 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "free college" rhetoric from Elizabeth Warren and the like... The underlying problem is the giant wealth transfer to colleges, and the progressive fixes seem to be to transfer even more wealth to them.

State universities in other countries either supply control through very high entrance standards or keeping everything cheap (think the interior of the typical USPS post office).

What's wrong with the post office interior? You're there to mail stuff, not to vacation.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#52

Post by novok » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

madengr wrote: post #35

Who the hell pays for an MS? At least back when I was in engineering grad school, everyone was covered by RA or TA grants, in addition to being paid by those. Of course in-state tuition at KU in 1996 was under $100/credit-hour, so if I did pay, those 9 credits/semester would be under $1k total.

There are 2 tiers of graduate studies. Ones paid by grants and are more PhD style and are mostly free as you said. They are selective and do not have a lot of slots.

And the 'free standing' ones that have a lot more slots, are not research focused and cost a lot more. Often seen for professionally licensed professions like psychology, law, or medicine.

Sometimes to a degree where it's a really bad idea. Like in psychology where private grad school costs 5-7 years of your life and $200-$400k of %6-%8 debt for a job that pays $100-150k/yr.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#53

Post by geodel » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

freewilly1040 wrote: post #30

ghobs91 wrote: post #25

This is what happens when there's 0 pressure on universities to price their programs competitively. If the government is backing every loan, the schools get paid up front, and the risk is then transferred to the gov to collect, why WOULDN'T a university charge as high a tuition as possible and hop on the gravy train? Their non-profit status hasn't even done much to keep costs low, as they can just keep hiring tons of…

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "free college" rhetoric from Elizabeth Warren and the like... The underlying problem is the giant wealth transfer to colleges, and the progressive fixes seem to be to transfer even more wealth to them.

Right. I do not see media attaching 'Populist' tag to her as they seem to do when they do not like a politician.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#54

Post by rolltiide » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

crsv wrote: post #44

rolltiide wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

out of curious, what roles do you hire for? in my world which is software engineering: lesser tier, middle tier and ivy league doesn't make a difference for actual wage work, with ivy league seeming to have outsized advantages in capital formation and being around capital in general. for wage work, no degree + experience is the same as have any degree. completely obliterating the tier of school. people with no experi…

Currently mostly non-technical: Marketing, Sales, CX. The topic of school tier is a messy one. Unless you're in a big org that's running really active recruiting efforts at the source of top tier schools, you may not have a real representative set of high tier applicants to ultimately check for differentiation. This topic also gets political and ideological really quick, but we do have some reasonably sound data that…

ah, you are talking about MBAs alongside marketing and sales. I would agree there

I was talking about undergrad and masters degrees that weren't business programs

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#55

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

joker3 wrote: post #3

duxup wrote: post #2

I wonder as far as education goes if graduating college, working, and then returning for a masters or similar things would be a better pattern. Or even graduating high school, working, college, working, college, or something else would be a better pattern. I've worked with some folks with MBAs who have no clue about how to work with people / think they're just "the boss" and what they say goes because no reason at al…

I really don't like the idea that education is a thing you do once in your late teens/early twenties and then finish. There are good reasons to do something then, but there's no good reason to stop.

Totally agree. A career should be a constant mix between learning and working. But only a few get the chance to learn on the job and going to school while working on a job (and making needed money) is very hard.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#56

Post by geodel » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #45

freewilly1040 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "free college" rhetoric from Elizabeth Warren and the like... The underlying problem is the giant wealth transfer to colleges, and the progressive fixes seem to be to transfer even more wealth to them.

State universities in other countries either supply control through very high entrance standards or keeping everything cheap (think the interior of the typical USPS post office).

I understand what you mean but USPS post office would be lot better than most of the buildings in university I attended in my country :)

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#57

Post by mertd » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #33

ghobs91 wrote: post #25

This is what happens when there's 0 pressure on universities to price their programs competitively. If the government is backing every loan, the schools get paid up front, and the risk is then transferred to the gov to collect, why WOULDN'T a university charge as high a tuition as possible and hop on the gravy train? Their non-profit status hasn't even done much to keep costs low, as they can just keep hiring tons of…

> The dept of education needs to treat universities the same way Medicaid treats healthcare providers. Determine what it actually costs per student per year to run a university, and tell the schools "Accept $x or shove off". If they're going to benefit from gov backed loans, they should play by the govs rules. This. Either eliminate Federal aid entirely, or if you want aid, here's the price you're gonna charge.

How do you reckon that the government won't keep cutting the cost to make budget for the next shiny fighter jet?

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#58

Post by harichinnan » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #45

freewilly1040 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "free college" rhetoric from Elizabeth Warren and the like... The underlying problem is the giant wealth transfer to colleges, and the progressive fixes seem to be to transfer even more wealth to them.

State universities in other countries either supply control through very high entrance standards or keeping everything cheap (think the interior of the typical USPS post office).

From my experience with State funded education in India. The quality of education is far from what you expect somewhere in West. Biggest problem is attracting teachers at professional education institutions like Engineering. The salaries are less than $1000 a month vs in Engineering companies which would pay a multiple of that. The schools do attract a talented bunch of students who have to clear extremely high entrance standards.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#59

Post by freewilly1040 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

dd36 wrote: post #34

freewilly1040 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "free college" rhetoric from Elizabeth Warren and the like... The underlying problem is the giant wealth transfer to colleges, and the progressive fixes seem to be to transfer even more wealth to them.

Or to do exactly as the OP said: this is what we’ll pay per student.

Is this what is being proposed though? I agree with this approach, but I haven't seen the proposals being framed this way.

Re: Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

#60

Post by geodel » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

prions wrote: post #50

I went back for my masters in CS after being a civil engineer for two years and learning cs my free time. These articles panning formal education don't fully grasp how difficult it is to get your foot in the door as a non-cs person whose also working full time. I also wanted to do something more technical than just web dev, which most career changers seem to land up in. Being a grad student opened a lot of doors into…

Well it is not news that it would work out fine for 1% motivated/extraordinary/well-off people. It's the rest who need more caution and be realistic about their prospects.