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Apple Sign In

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Re: Apple Sign In

#491

Post by sturgill »

mb-deus wrote: post #443
sturgill wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this explicitly doesn’t work as an SSO. How can I tie that back to the actual email address they would have used to create an account using their FB / Google account? This sounds like a tremendous headache that I really don’t want to worry about. But Apple is looking to leverage their power in the app market to force me to implement a tool I may not be interested in as a merchant? I despise being strong armed. I…

“Tremendous headache” - put your toys back in your pram! This is a brilliant move by Apple, and why my next phone will be another iPhone. If you don't want to implement it you can kiss good bye to my business.

My problem is that I don’t get to choose if your business is worth the implementation cost. Because we’re already in bed with FB we will be forced to implement. It’s the “have to” I’m arguing against, not the feature.

Re: Apple Sign In

#492

Post by nihonde »

Mindwipe wrote: post #474
nihonde wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s competing. Fair play unless you’re the dominant player in the relevant market.

"Dominant player" isn't especially relevant in European market law. Essentially the test is that you are of sufficient import to materially affect pricing in that market, which Apple definitely is.

I was taught that Article 102 is the test for abuse of monopoly power in the EU. It actually uses the words “dominant position” if I’m not mistaken.

I haven’t studied this since the late 90’s, so I may be out of date...

Re: Apple Sign In

#493

Post by icebraining »

ulfw wrote: post #433
dfabulich wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, anyone offering Facebook/Google login will also have to accept Apple's anonymized forwarded email addresses, like fc452bd5ea@privaterelay.appleid.com.

How will this work if I use non-Apple products (and GOD BEWARE !) move from say an iPhone to an Android or an overpriced Macbook to a PC? Once I chose to use Apple-Sign In will I be locked into the ecosystem? Will there be 'Apple-Sign In' for Android?

Sites should allow you to add extra authentication methods; if they don't, that's not Apple's fault.

Re: Apple Sign In

#494

Post by icebraining »

timdorr wrote: post #389
polutropos wrote: post #308

According to the App Store review guidelines update posted today, Sign In with Apple will be required for any iOS app that implements a single-sign in button. "Sign In with Apple will be available for beta testing this summer. It will be required as an option for users in apps that support third-party sign-in when it is commercially available later this year." https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=06032019j

How will this work for apps that depend on the third party for more than just identity? For instance, does an app built on Spotify's API have to include a Sign in with Apple option? Or something like CI2Go, which is an app for CircleCI, which only offers log in via GitHub or Bitbucket. I have to assume there will be exceptions.

If you are built on Spotify, then the use is not signing in to your app, but to Spotify (and then authorizing your app), so it should be up to them to provide the Apple Sign In feature, I assume.

Re: Apple Sign In

#495

Post by NateEag »

xvector wrote: post #422
NateEag wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple swindles, manipulates and mistreats developers to further their own ends. It's perhaps less evil than the kind of wholesale data-farming the other big tech companies are engaged in, but it still doesn't make me like the idea of Apple ascendant. And I was raised on Macs, giving Apple a heavy nostalgia bonus that they burned years ago.

Apple takes powers from developers hired by greedy companies and puts that power in the hands of the users. You find that you're being strongarmed. As a oonsumer, I could not care less. Hell, I am thrilled that developers are being strongarmed when it comes to user privacy and security.

I'm not concerned with Apple refusing apps that do seamy things (though "seamy things" is more subjective than you might think, as Apple is well aware).

I am concerned with things like Apple's terms of service saying "If you put an app in the store, we reserve the right to copy it and ban yours."

They don't spell it out quite that clearly, but sections 14.4 and 11.2 of the developer guidelines make it clear enough (https://download.developer.apple.com/Documentation/ADP_Progr...).

Yes, there are more charitable interpretations possible, but Apple does have some history of cloning and killing off third party software, so I see no reason to apply the more charitable interpretation.

Re: Apple Sign In

#496

Post by NateEag »

sjwright wrote: post #487
NateEag wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple swindles, manipulates and mistreats developers to further their own ends. It's perhaps less evil than the kind of wholesale data-farming the other big tech companies are engaged in, but it still doesn't make me like the idea of Apple ascendant. And I was raised on Macs, giving Apple a heavy nostalgia bonus that they burned years ago.

How is it evil? Apple is saying that their customers aren't yours to pillage. No developer is forced to write for the Apple platform. If a developer doesn't like the terms, there will always be another developer willing to fill the gap. Who said the Windows/Android model is the morally correct one anyway? As a customer I'm glad that Apple is providing a truly different alternative.

I guess I was not especially clear, so my apologies for that.

I'm not scared of this anonymous signin feature, per se.

I'm scared of the sheer amount of power Apple has, and that they can abuse it to force third parties into compliance with what they think software should be.

That's what I was saying I found terrifying.

Re: Apple Sign In

#497

Post by swish_bob »

oarsinsync wrote: post #486
swish_bob wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but while I can choose to log in with facebook, or google, or whatever, it appears that Apple are mandating that app providers use the Apple sign-in, which means app users no longer get to choose. Unless I'm misunderstanding what the mandatory part is.

They are mandating that if you offer any other authentication provider (e.g. Facebook, Google, etc), that you have to offer Apple sign-in as an option as well. The option is mandatory. End users using it is optional.

If the policy is "if you offer one or more authentication providers, you must include Apple sign-in", while it's still a little harsh, I think it's much more defendable and reasonable.

Re: Apple Sign In

#498

Post by noelsusman »

basch wrote: post #353
noelsusman wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to run on my phone seems like an important feature.

Are you their customer? Do you buy their products? If not, then no you're not important. Their business model is to serve their paying customers.

I own several Apple products. My 2015 MBP is my primary computing device outside of work. I am a paying customer, and this service is useless to me unless I replace every device I own with an Apple device. I couldn't do that even if I actually wanted to.

Re: Apple Sign In

#499

Post by dannyw »

mindgam3 wrote: post #346
noelsusman wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're close to parity with a giant exception that it's not available to the overwhelming majority of Facebook users.

True, but Facebook’s overwhelming majority of users is completely irrelevant now that their brand is irreparably tarnished. People will still use Facebook for a long time, but nobody other than a few diehards and people who work there want FB to own their identity. I believe that particular grand vision is dead for FB despite their user base.

No one is gonna buy an iPhone to "sign in with apple".

No one is gonna make a group chat on iMessage where half the people aren't able to join anyway.

Apple should release iMessage for Android.

Re: Apple Sign In

#500

Post by jnaina »

canes123456 wrote: post #392
mindgam3 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Apple sensing weakness and dropping a bomb right on facebook’s doorstep. And they sidestep the anticompetitive angle by arguing that instant anonymous sign on is simply a better UX, which it is. Someone at Apple deserves a raise.

Lol, I doubt it. Apple is years late and sucks at doing the leg work of getting third parties to adopt its suck. Look at Apple Pay which was launched at the perfect time.

I use Apple Pay for almost all my purchases in Singapore, where almost ~80% of merchant terminals support it. Recently, Singapore's train system started allowing Apple Pay payments at the turnstiles. Using the Apple Watch at the turnstiles without having to fumble for the stored value card is amazing.
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