Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Sign In

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 544 posts

Re: Apple Sign In

#361

Post by EGreg »

sturgill wrote: post #348
dfabulich wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, anyone offering Facebook/Google login will also have to accept Apple's anonymized forwarded email addresses, like fc452bd5ea@privaterelay.appleid.com.

But this explicitly doesn’t work as an SSO. How can I tie that back to the actual email address they would have used to create an account using their FB / Google account? This sounds like a tremendous headache that I really don’t want to worry about. But Apple is looking to leverage their power in the app market to force me to implement a tool I may not be interested in as a merchant? I despise being strong armed. I…

Presumably it’s always the same address every time they sign in. It is used for single sign on after all!

However, I wish email and sms would go away as a way to authenticate. Until it does I will be using foo+aliashere@gmail.com so that my account can’t get transferred to someone else through socially engineering a tired rep.

Re: Apple Sign In

#362

Post by EGreg »

sb8244 wrote: post #344
nihonde wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition is not anti-competitive. Excluding other third party sign on options would be problematic if Apple were abusing a dominant position among smartphone makers, which is not the case by any objective measure.

Is it problematic if Apple says "you must include us if you include anyone else?" That seems anti-competitive to me.

Yes it is anticompetitive. It is using Apple’s monopoly as gatekeeper of their app store.

Apple would have long ago been cited for Antitrust if Android hadn’t had most of the market. I personally think that the definition of a trust is too narrow — one member of an oligopoly abusing its position as a platform provider and strongarming people is also pretty bad.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/6/3/18650861/appl...

Re: Apple Sign In

#363

Post by basch »

rootusrootus wrote: post #315
basch wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that was just default AutoFill? It allows saving passwords to your password manager too?

You can create/generate & save new login on the fly from the sign-in screen. At least with 1Password. It's clunkier than I think is strictly necessary, but it is effective.

Is that through a keyboard? Can the browser pass what I type to 1pass?

Re: Apple Sign In

#364

Post by NateEag »

_bxg1 wrote: post #295
NateEag wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as terrifying, personally, but to each their own. I have been responsible for creating and maintaining an app generation system. Among other things, it taught me that App Store Connect has many sharp edges showing how easy it is to abuse the kind of power you've correctly pointed out Apple has.

In a world where every other tech company swindles and manipulates consumers at every opportunity, I'm happy that at least one is incentivized to do the opposite, and has the power to do so.

Apple swindles, manipulates and mistreats developers to further their own ends.

It's perhaps less evil than the kind of wholesale data-farming the other big tech companies are engaged in, but it still doesn't make me like the idea of Apple ascendant.

And I was raised on Macs, giving Apple a heavy nostalgia bonus that they burned years ago.

Re: Apple Sign In

#365

Post by nihonde »

EGreg wrote: post #362
sb8244 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it problematic if Apple says "you must include us if you include anyone else?" That seems anti-competitive to me.

Yes it is anticompetitive. It is using Apple’s monopoly as gatekeeper of their app store. Apple would have long ago been cited for Antitrust if Android hadn’t had most of the market. I personally think that the definition of a trust is too narrow — one member of an oligopoly abusing its position as a platform provider and strongarming people is also pretty bad. https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/6/3/18650861/…

That’s not how antitrust law works. It’s not a test of whether a company exerts too much control over its own customers. It’s a test of whether customers have some alternatives and a real opportunity to vote with their dollars.

Re: Apple Sign In

#366

Post by [deleted] »

mindgam3 wrote: post #163

This is a huge move. Apple striking at the core of Facebook's play to own your identity, which they had with Facebook Connect but have completely fudged out with countless breaches of user privacy and trust. I used to be the biggest fanboy of facebook connect, but now I have to say: Go Apple.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Sign In

#367

Post by sturgill »

EGreg wrote: post #361
sturgill wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this explicitly doesn’t work as an SSO. How can I tie that back to the actual email address they would have used to create an account using their FB / Google account? This sounds like a tremendous headache that I really don’t want to worry about. But Apple is looking to leverage their power in the app market to force me to implement a tool I may not be interested in as a merchant? I despise being strong armed. I…

Presumably it’s always the same address every time they sign in. It is used for single sign on after all! However, I wish email and sms would go away as a way to authenticate. Until it does I will be using foo+aliashere@gmail.com so that my account can’t get transferred to someone else through socially engineering a tired rep.

But someone who has already signed up via FB is going to click that button and then get angry when we can’t log them into their account.

I personally don’t use FB login. And I use `+merchant` to keep track of bad actors. But from a merchant perspective this will likely be a chore. And Apple has decided that we don’t get to decide if it’s worth it. We can’t disable FB login because we’ve supported it for a long time and a ton of accounts only have a FB-synced profile.

To be clear, it’s not the product I have issue with. It’s the draconian ultimatum that because we are in bed with FB we have to also get in bed with Apple Sign In.

They could have just built this into their form system. It already recommends my personal email / credit card / auto generated password. Why not prepopulate / suggest an Apple-generated email? Why force the merchant to implement another standard which breaks all other SSO integrations _by design_?

I don’t have answers to those questions. If this was a consumer feature embedded into their keyboard I’d be ecstatic. Strong arming merchants to implement and bear the full cost of confused consumers who can’t seem to login to their app _even when they click the Apple button_ is inexplicable (to me).

Re: Apple Sign In

#368

Post by maxerickson »

nihonde wrote: post #359
sb8244 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it problematic if Apple says "you must include us if you include anyone else?" That seems anti-competitive to me.

That’s competing. Fair play unless you’re the dominant player in the relevant market.

Leveraging their status as the controller of the platform to require support for their solution is not the same thing as their solution competing head to head with other solutions.

Note that I'm not making an argument about how to classify the behavior legally, I'm arguing that calling it "competing" is pretty generous.

Re: Apple Sign In

#369

Post by mindgam3 »

polutropos wrote: post #308

According to the App Store review guidelines update posted today, Sign In with Apple will be required for any iOS app that implements a single-sign in button. "Sign In with Apple will be available for beta testing this summer. It will be required as an option for users in apps that support third-party sign-in when it is commercially available later this year." https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=06032019j

This is Apple sensing weakness and dropping a bomb right on facebook’s doorstep. And they sidestep the anticompetitive angle by arguing that instant anonymous sign on is simply a better UX, which it is.

Someone at Apple deserves a raise.

Re: Apple Sign In

#370

Post by natch »

sturgill wrote: post #348
dfabulich wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, anyone offering Facebook/Google login will also have to accept Apple's anonymized forwarded email addresses, like fc452bd5ea@privaterelay.appleid.com.

But this explicitly doesn’t work as an SSO. How can I tie that back to the actual email address they would have used to create an account using their FB / Google account? This sounds like a tremendous headache that I really don’t want to worry about. But Apple is looking to leverage their power in the app market to force me to implement a tool I may not be interested in as a merchant? I despise being strong armed. I…

It’s the users who are being given power here over their own data. Yeah it’s tough but it’s been a long time coming.
Post reply on HN