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Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

bloomberg.com

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Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#231

Post by dsfyu404ed »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #176
scottlocklin wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The schools might have to let natives in; the horror. We might have to return to the dark ages of the 1950s when the STEM graduates were majority Americans and we actually were making technological progress in something other than lithography. "Science" is addicted to cheap foreign labor, which has ruined the market for natives.

Who are these natives you speak of? Last I checked we are a nation of immigrants. If not you then your parents, grandparents and their parents.

Natives = people who were born and grew up here. Stop being intentionally obtuse. Nobody is native on a long enough timeline.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#232

Post by whoevercares »

kuzehanka wrote: post #140
xxxpupugo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of such thing as exit visa...

When you try to leave China, you're checked against a no-exit list and simply prevented from leaving if you're on it. No reason need be given to you. China currently keeps a number of political hostages this way and prevents undesirable nationals from leaving the country. Most countries try to prevent undesirables from entering, china allows them to enter and then prevents them from leaving. https://fox8.com/2019/01/…

If you managed to get on that list, congrats, you are a BIG deal and might win the next Nobel peace prize. Honestly I’ll be super proud of myself if they put me on that list (it’s probably shorter than 100 for people under 25)

How long on earth do you think this exit list is?

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#233

Post by whenchamenia »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #219
threezero wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, except there’s a finite amount of educational slots, and so fewer people who would keep that education and knowledge in the US are able to get in.

What keeps institutions from increasing the number of spots to meet demand, much like car manufacturers?

They tried, turns out good education is hard to scale.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#234

Post by cltsang »

freeflight wrote: post #197
cltsang wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get that impression? From what the article says America is only getting more conscious about foreigners from China, not foreigners in general. They are quite different. This is hardly a surprising move considering the recent realization that the Chinese government has been pushing propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. One notable example is c…

It's hard not to get that impression with cage-camps at the borders, asking foreign travelers for all their social media details and locking out nationalities like Iranians and Chinese from certain ventures. Yet, here you are claiming it's "all just Chinese propaganda", apparently completely unaware about the fact that a statement like that is pretty much it's very own propaganda by deflecting everything that could b…

Did I claim "all just Chinese propaganda"? I was taught in mathematical induction lessons that necessary condition does not equal sufficient condition.

I don't disagree with the rest of your statements. But I think even after disregarding an open southern border, the US is still relatively open.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#235

Post by onetimemanytime »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #200
onetimemanytime wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, someone makes that decision. Today is Trump and his advisers (if he listens to anyone :)) and Congress. No polls or votes are taken on things like banning Chinese students or not. Frankly, I don't think we should educate anyone that goes back to a hostile country. China is rising, and that can cause a lot of problems for us, see China Sea for one. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/03/china-army-colonel-says-beij...

> Frankly, I don't think we should educate anyone that goes back to a hostile country. China is rising, and that can cause a lot of problems for us, see China Sea for one. This would be an utterly disasterous policy. The only reason to enact it is if your own side is actively seeking war. And may I note that irrespective of the overall behaviour of the two regimes, in the case of complaining about China causing probl…

>>in the case of complaining about China causing problems for US interests in the China sea, the China sea is a lot nearer to China than it is to the US.

Trade routes over for one. Freedom of navigation is another reason. What they might go after next time is another concern. Like it or not, USA has interests and allies over there.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#236

Post by _lessthan0 »

whenchamenia wrote: post #226
_lessthan0 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgmental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US. This is like me studying in the UK, meeting or bumping into US students. Very loud…

Funny, I find brits in the USA to be loud and poor at handling their drink. Some of the most self-centered people around. But stereotypes only hurt.

Thankfully I am not British. Both are loud and obnoxious in their own way. Just find people from Europe more tolerable.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#237

Post by ourlordcaffeine »

kuzehanka wrote: post #133
fiblye wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because the societies are so different and have limited contact, should we seek to cut off one of the few opportunities young people from borderline enemy countries across the world have to interact, or give them a space to interact freely? I know most Chinese students at my university kept to their in-group and never interacted with anyone else. I also know loads who found a new culture that they felt comfortable…

It's not about societies being different. It's about Chinese international students engaging in blatant plagiarism, refusing to participate in classes, completely refusing to integrate, engaging in pro-chinese anti-local political activism, and basically expanding the CCPs political reach into foreign universities. This is something that all tertiary educators are painful aware of, as is the reluctance of faculty to…

>The Chinese students who don't subscribe to the CCP agenda are pressured by the others. They get labelled traitors, ostracised, word gets around and their families get harassed back at home.

This has happened to people I know, for crimes such as going to a Taiwanese owned restaurant, a showing of a Tienanmen documentary and dating local white people.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#238

Post by freewizard »

Like some comments pointed out, targeting on talent will be ineffective, if not backfiring. And just like most typical dumb policies, it's targeting on symptoms (students not integrating or researchers leaving) not real causes and issues in this country: race, economic and fake news.

The racial problems and slow economic in US is making international students less motivated to stay in US, and particularly when it comes to Chinese students, they have an easy fallback option.

The propaganda and fake news is making it worse. While on one side nationalism propaganda is flowing in from the China (particularly on WeChat and Zhihu), on the other side fake news targeting on Chinese students and broadly minorities/foreigners are pushing them further away.

In the past, US administrations have made some really smart decisions like helped establish one of best universities in China[1], and generously welcomed the Chinese student from Tiananmen Protest in 1989[2].

This administration is fond of self-claimed wars, targeting students and researchers is a war easy to win, even much easier than the trade war, but we all know history which tells us where it leads to.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsinghua_University#Early_20th...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Student_Protection_Act...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#239

Post by cltsang »

Juliate wrote: post #188
cltsang wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get that impression? From what the article says America is only getting more conscious about foreigners from China, not foreigners in general. They are quite different. This is hardly a surprising move considering the recent realization that the Chinese government has been pushing propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. One notable example is c…

> not foreigners in general. By requesting their social network identity, right. That's being conscious. > propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years. The best propaganda against these values comes from your very current president and administration.

If you are implying Donald Trump is my president, that is incorrect. It's dangerous to make assumptions when you are not keeping a level head.

If requesting social network identity is not being more conscious, what is it? It is not a blanket ban. For all we know, social network identity is just more information for making a more informed decision on the visa application.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#240

Post by Juliate »

cltsang wrote: post #239
Juliate wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not foreigners in general. By requesting their social network identity, right. That's being conscious. > propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years. The best propaganda against these values comes from your very current president and administration.

If you are implying Donald Trump is my president, that is incorrect. It's dangerous to make assumptions when you are not keeping a level head. If requesting social network identity is not being more conscious, what is it? It is not a blanket ban. For all we know, social network identity is just more information for making a more informed decision on the visa application.

Right. With this logic, in a few years, we will all travel naked and not be allowed to cross a border without an all-orifices probe.
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