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Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

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Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#221

Post by addicted »

the_svd_doctor wrote: post #72
nneonneo wrote: post #9

Students from China (and many other countries) are required to renew their visas annually, a process which is already quite nerve-wracking for many. PhDs in particular can take anywhere from 4 to 8 years to complete, meaning 4-8 chances for your studies to be interrupted with the only option to return home while the visa renewal stalls. This article explicitly calls out the fact that renewals seem to have been gettin…

Your first point is incorrect. First a student asks for an F-1 (sometimes J-1) visa. This can be delivered for a single entry (typical for Iranian students for instance), or for 1 or like 5 years (the common case for international students). The visa lets you _enter_ the country. Once admitted in the US, a student can remain indefinitely while maintaining its student status (including school transfers). This applies…

If you overstay the length of your Visa you also run the risk of being eliminated from any future Visa considerations,whether for work, study or tourism.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#222

Post by Juliate »

raxxorrax wrote: post #204
Juliate wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not foreigners in general. By requesting their social network identity, right. That's being conscious. > propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years. The best propaganda against these values comes from your very current president and administration.

> Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years Which didn't do a good job of informing the public. The argument is dishonest, because policies related to surveillance were implemented by all governments of the last decade. On the contrary, this lead to many, many people to say "fuck it", let us just take this madness to the next level and see what happens. Had the current president not won, we would…

I'm not saying it didn't start long ago.

Not saying Democrats are clean either - however, in this instance, last time I checked history books, Reagan/Bush & Republicans mostly inherit the chaos they unleashed by their interventions in Middle East in the past 30 years.

Had the current president not won... who cares? He _is_ there today. And he _is_ _breaking_ the country that elected him as well as _all the alliances this country built in the past century.

The apathy is real.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#223

Post by whoevercares »

scottlocklin wrote: post #169
nneonneo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no doubt that such approvals require allegiance to the CCP and and some willingness to help the CCP when asked. No, they really don’t. Where’s your source for this? You make it sound like we’re just admitting 350,000 spies into the States each year. However, it is true that if you make these folks feel thoroughly unwelcome, they will want to just go home and help out - and that’s exactly what you’ll do by…

I dunno about OP, but there are definitely industrial spy issues, and individual Chinese students do have issues with the government in traveling to the US. I had a Chinese student who I would have loved to keep in the US, but according to him, his parents would suffer because they worked in the banking industry, and they'd fall under suspicion.

That’s an extreme case, either his parents are at the top executive level or he might be fooling you. Typically the “suspicion” is only applicable for super high level government officials(regional head) or SVP/EVP executive of state owned bank/enterprise.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#224

Post by Aromasin »

fiblye wrote: post #148
kuzehanka wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about societies being different. It's about Chinese international students engaging in blatant plagiarism, refusing to participate in classes, completely refusing to integrate, engaging in pro-chinese anti-local political activism, and basically expanding the CCPs political reach into foreign universities. This is something that all tertiary educators are painful aware of, as is the reluctance of faculty to…

>unique to Chinese and not other international students. It’s really not. All wealthy international students are getting passed with As and pats on the back for cheating and doing no real work. It just seems worse with Chinese because they currently make up most of the foreign student base. And political activism and silencing others on behalf of the CCP is an issue, but I’ve seen disproportionately way more student…

I can back that up with a different anecdotal experience not including the Chinese. Many of the students on my course were wealthy Emirati and Saudi students. They were quite open about the fact that most of them paid people to write their dissertations and other assignments for them. It was seen as a symbol of wealth who could get the most qualified person to do their work for them. None of them turned up to lectures though, and they'd all fail or do poorly in their exams - but their assignment scores were enough scrape them through the course. The plagiarism was so unbelievably blatant, but the university wouldn't do anything because the petro-states pay out big and they didn't want to appear to be targeting minorities (from the mouth of one of my lecturers). Can't say it's the same for all universities, but my institution was awful for it,

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#225

Post by dsfyu404ed »

raxxorrax wrote: post #204
Juliate wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not foreigners in general. By requesting their social network identity, right. That's being conscious. > propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years. The best propaganda against these values comes from your very current president and administration.

> Well... someone skipped reading the news for the past 3 years Which didn't do a good job of informing the public. The argument is dishonest, because policies related to surveillance were implemented by all governments of the last decade. On the contrary, this lead to many, many people to say "fuck it", let us just take this madness to the next level and see what happens. Had the current president not won, we would…

>The argument is dishonest, because policies related to surveillance were implemented by all governments of the last decade

This is technically correct but I'd like to point out it easily rounds to two decades. Most of the surveillance state stuff ramped up after 9/11 which was almost 20yr ago.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#226

Post by whenchamenia »

_lessthan0 wrote: post #218
bayesian_horse wrote: post #89

A well-known Youtuber called Serpentza recently made a video about how Chinese students don't assimilate into American culture and how it is made difficult for them to assimilate, partly due to overt action from the Chinese government. For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgemental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different tha…

For one thing, Chinese culture is quite alien to western culture, and I don't mean that in a judgmental way, just that their spoken, written and body language is so much different that it is automatically harder for them. It doesn't help that they are told by the educational system and state media how great China is and how bad the US. This is like me studying in the UK, meeting or bumping into US students. Very loud…

Funny, I find brits in the USA to be loud and poor at handling their drink. Some of the most self-centered people around. But stereotypes only hurt.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#227

Post by ryanmercer »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #144
henrikschroder wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a massive advantage in science (and business) in that many of the best and brightest from across the world want to come to the US, despite the hurdles and issues of getting student visas or work visas. This means that as a country you don't have to pay for the primary and secondary schooling of all these people, but you get to reap the rewards of them working in your country and contributing to your scient…

If its like the UK International students are a source of income as they pay more and subsidise the locals.

A lot of the prestigious schools in the United States could not charge tuition going forward for decades and be fine financially still, they have massive endowments.

Harvard, Yale, University of Texas, Stanford, Princeton, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, University of Pennsylvania, Texas A&M, University of Michigan, Northwestern University, Columbia University all have 10-30 billion EACH.

Roughly 100 colleges in the United States have endowments exceeding 1 billion dollars. Even with a billion in a broad market index fund they could burn 30 million a year and likely never run out of money, I think the most expensive tuition in the country is like 60k or some such, so the poorest of those 100 schools could take at least 500 students a year for free and not go broke.

There are about a dozen universities in the United States that have research budgets alone exceeding 1 billion dollars a year.

Kinda makes you wonder why college tuition is so expensive at those 100~ schools...

And I don't think those endowments include real estate value or income from IP the schools own thanks to research conducted there.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#228

Post by addicted »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #180
dmos62 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an over-generalization. No country is one entity in the context of "what it thinks".

Well, someone makes that decision. Today is Trump and his advisers (if he listens to anyone :)) and Congress. No polls or votes are taken on things like banning Chinese students or not. Frankly, I don't think we should educate anyone that goes back to a hostile country. China is rising, and that can cause a lot of problems for us, see China Sea for one. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/03/china-army-colonel-says-beij...

The genius of American policy.

Create a hostile environment for Chinese students so that they are encouraged to return home.

Then prevent them from coming at all because they may return home.

This completely ignored that the massive majority of Chinese stay in the US, and even more would stay in the US contributing disproportionately more than nearly every other grouping of people.

If it wasn't for the US driving them away, it's hard to see why any Chinese national, especially a well educated one, would ever choose to leave the US for China.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#229

Post by addicted »

orhmeh09 wrote: post #187
C1sc0cat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its like the UK International students are a source of income as they pay more and subsidise the locals.

How did universities ever manage to operate whilst charging much lower/no tuition back when there was not a group like this?

They were funded by the state. Funding which has been systematically cut back over the past 2 decades.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#230

Post by inflatableDodo »

ryanmercer wrote: post #214
nl wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Researchers" aren't exactly your typical students though. They contribute a huge amount to the IP developed within a country. PhD students do a lot a the grunt work that more famous people get most of the credit for.

> They contribute a huge amount to the IP developed within a country. And can willingly, or under coercion by their home government (We'll put your parents in prison, rape your mother, have you stabbed in the street), hand over every last bit of data they have access to on any project(s). Considering most decent educational institutions receive mountains of defense department money and have all sorts of government-in…

This is the kind of approach to things that I tend to associate with the global non-denominational death cult.
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