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Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

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Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#171

Post by XCabbage »

mtberatwork wrote: post #156
XCabbage wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we're consuming different sets of MSM and alternative sources, but my experience is not only that they are not equally applicable, but that your suggestion that they are is completely ludicrous. 95%+ of MSM articles I read that reference an external document do not link to it. MSM articles are usually littered with links, but they're internal links to lists of other articles by the same MSM outlet about the top…

> the idea of a blogger or YouTuber doing this - just, say, declaring that the government has announced something without providing any corroboration This is literally what Alex Jones does.

Does InfoWars count as "alternative media"? I mean, it's clearly not "mainstream", but the format - the medium - is no different to a mainstream news show. I wouldn't've thought it fell into either of the two categories we're discussing.

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#172

Post by ptrott2017 »

sbmassey wrote: post #40
josephorjoe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who has read Terry Pratchett will be surprised that he has deep insight into human nature. His books are full of explorations of what motivates humans and how humans misunderstand each other. They are also frequently hilarious. Bill Gates quote seems to reveal an expectation that humans would respect authority and be guided by it in their decision making -- which shows a shallow understanding of human nature.…

The Pratchett's I have read seem to be full of basic human archetypes, riffed off for comedic effect, rather than anything approximating how real people think. He's no Shakespear/James Joyce/Henry James.

I was not a fan until I recently re-read all his work - but I dont think he ever would have claimed to be a shakespeare or a Henry James. I would say a more apt comparitive group would probably be Rabelais, Swift,Verne, Vonnegut, Voltaire, Wells, Wilde and Woodehouse - all of which he certainly is an equal writer to and his overall body of work sits well with.

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#174

Post by dredmorbius »

blancheneige wrote: post #84
imtringued wrote: post #45

Fake news has always existed. The only difference between today and hundreds of years ago is who had the most reach. Back in the past only the church and royalty had the power to spread (fake) news. Nowadays anyone can go on social media and do the same.

> Back in the past only the church and royalty had the power to spread (fake) news. How so? Do you have an example in mind? I can think of a lot of fake news or misleading propaganda deliberately disseminated by seditious and revolutionary groups during the French and American revolutions.

You'd probably want to read a treatment of the history of infrmation. Elizabeth Eisenstein's The Printing Press as an Agent of Change is a good (if long) start.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/printing-press-as-an-agent-of...

But church, or rather, Church, as power centre is very well established. The Roman Catholic Church thrugh the 15th century controlled knowledge, literacy, education, much of banking, and much of politics.

Not that the lay population mattered for much, but weekly mass was among the few channels by which common messages could be disseminated. Markets, town criers, and private messengers (royalty, nobles, commerce, finance) existed as well. Information might take months to cross Europe (especislly in winter), and longer from abroad. There was virtually no travel from November through May.

Literacy rates were on. the order of 5-10% through the start of the 17th-18th century (varying by region). It was both the explosion in printing capabilities (iron, steam, rotary, electric, web presses, from ~100 impressions/hr to 1 million+) and literacy (to 90-95%+) which accounted for much of the political turmoil of the 19th century -- moreso if you consder "the Long 19th Century" of 1789 - 1914.

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#175

Post by falcor84 »

blackflame7000 wrote: post #170
treebeard901 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Truth is constant, lies are variable. Is truth really constant though? The answer would probably depend on the domain being considered. Many things change over time and truth can change with them. So perhaps the core problem is that multiple contradictory “truths” can exist depending on ones point of view and ones point in time. This would be separate from intentional misinformation which does tie into the debate.…

Let's make a distinction between universal truths as you described and local truths that are defined as an accurate retelling of the events that unfolded at a certain time at a given place. That cannot change with time as its already been "recorded"

You lost me at "accurate retelling"

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#176

Post by dredmorbius »

blancheneige wrote: post #84
imtringued wrote: post #45

Fake news has always existed. The only difference between today and hundreds of years ago is who had the most reach. Back in the past only the church and royalty had the power to spread (fake) news. Nowadays anyone can go on social media and do the same.

> Back in the past only the church and royalty had the power to spread (fake) news. How so? Do you have an example in mind? I can think of a lot of fake news or misleading propaganda deliberately disseminated by seditious and revolutionary groups during the French and American revolutions.

Another good reference might be volume 1 of Harold Lassiter's Propaganda and communication in world history, "The symbolic instrument in early times".

https://www.worldcat.org/title/propaganda-and-communication-...

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#177

Post by blackflame7000 »

falcor84 wrote: post #175
blackflame7000 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's make a distinction between universal truths as you described and local truths that are defined as an accurate retelling of the events that unfolded at a certain time at a given place. That cannot change with time as its already been "recorded"

You lost me at "accurate retelling"

Things always happen a particular way, regardless of peoples memory of that event. Case in point, a video camera can sometimes give an accurate retelling of the events at a particular place at a particular time.

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#178

Post by sharot4 »

krapp wrote: post #131
astazangasta wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear to me how you are identifying "public" anxiety, as opposed to the anxiety of Washington. We can observe the latter in the behavior of Congress, e.g. The former is unclear. In any case, let's go with "anxiety". Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? The answer is simple: Trump was elected. He is not alone; there is a…

>Why is there sudden anxiety? Why should we worry about Pizzagate now while we didn't worry about similar things two years ago? Because Pizzagate, along with other fake news, misinformation and slander campaigns, appear to have contributed in a nontrivial way to Trump's election, and all of them are by definition complete and utter bullshit. We should worry when obvious nonsense takes precedence in our political disc…

Do you believe that there are secret sex slave networks in the world, anywhere, at all? If so, who participates in them? Do you believe that satanic rituals are practiced anywhere in the world? Who practices them? Do you believe that pedophilia is a thing that exists in the world? If so, which ones are the pedophiles?

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#179

Post by falcor84 »

blackflame7000 wrote: post #177
falcor84 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me at "accurate retelling"

Things always happen a particular way, regardless of peoples memory of that event. Case in point, a video camera can sometimes give an accurate retelling of the events at a particular place at a particular time.

A video is closer to the event than a textual retelling, but is still only a proxy. The choice of camera positioning can significantly change the viewer's perception of the event, and the narrative formed.

Re: Terry Pratchett warns Bill Gates about fake news (1995)

#180

Post by doomglobe »

dmos62 wrote: post #72
pjc50 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a stopped clock is right twice a day. So all the stopped clock merchant has to do is wait for the clock to line up, then shout from the rooftops that they have the right time. It's not enough to be correct by coincidence, process matters. We see this often enough in scientific papers where the statistics come into question. News process is different, especially given how sources work. Not everyone is willing to b…

Clocks are a great analogy. As pointed out, the problem is in verification. Say everyone has a clock and they're all showing different time. How do you actually get to the ground truth? Observe and measure planetary motion? That's too much hassle. This is where the analogy cracks a bit (or does it?). What you want is for your clock to show the same time as others' clocks do, so you join a group where you synchronize…

That explains why the illuminati want to split us into different time zones. Keep us divided.
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