111–120 of 164 posts
Reminder: Always reflect on who you are associating yourself with, in a cult, company owned group, non-democratic group, activity that marks you as "one of them",etc... you cease to be an individual and become just the fuel behind someone else's agenda and values (neither of which you can control). Be an individual.
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That’s because people are impatient and weak. Dead hang pullups are real pullups. Kipping only leads you to kipping muscle ups. Go on YouTube and see examples of real muscle ups from dead hangs with no momentum. That is true strength, and a worthy goal. The sooner you stop kipping, the faster you can get there.
I have the greatest respect for gymnasts, because they are basically top of the heap for pound for pound strength. It's not an area of expertise for me though, so please enlighten me: if using momentum to get a kipping muscle up and then gradually reducing the momentum assist until you can do it strictly isn't the right progression, what is?
You're absolutely right in that you need to start somewhere, and a properly instructed kip can definitely help there. But you could also start by doing negatives of the partial exercises (start pulled/pushed up and lower yourself down in a controlled manner), which can be at the same time used to teach proper form and naturally transition into a full muscle up.
Once again, it's the classic Crossfit problem: if you do it properly and controlled, it is a nice exercise regimen. According to most anecdotal evidence, a lot of people don't, though.
Edit: retiredcoder also replied with bands etc. to support in the beginning, which is obviously also a good method and, now that I think of it, one I've often seen in my gym. In the same vein, there's usually a pull up machine somewhere in the back that will support you by using a counterweight on the way up, though here you'll have the usual discussion regarding machine/no machine.
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If you've ever been an athlete, and have spent 30 seconds watching crossfit - it becomes obvious the goal is to see how dumb of an "exercise" you can do before getting hurt. There are two type of crossfitters - those who have gotten a permanent and serious injury, and those who are going to get one.
I can't verify the quality of these studies but it seems that injury rates per 1000 active hours of crossfit at 0.27 - 0.74 [1] are significantly lower than more common sports such as running at 2.9 - 4.4 and basketball at 6.3 - 12.9 [2] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201188/ [2] http://bionics.seas.ucla.edu/education/Rowing/Injury_2004_01...
Specifically, this study conflicts with several other studies that found significantly higher rates of injury (and which this study acknowledges), including 2 studies which found a 20% rate of injury and 50% rate of injury for Crossfit athletes, respectively, using controlled observational samples rather than the self-reported, self-selected sample of this study.
Anecdotally, I don't know any current Crossfitters without overuse injuries--including those who go to the "safe" gyms. I also know a larger number of former Crossfitters, all of whom stopped because of injury.
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> I’m thinking an intense workout with good form and control vs. a standard CrossFit workout A standard CrossFit without is done with good form and control.
Most CrossFit gyms aim for good form and control. All workouts can be scaled, if you can't lift a certain weight, or perform a certain movement you scale it down to a weight or movement you can do comfortably. For instance, if you were asked to perform a workout which required handstand push-ups and you couldn't do them, you could scale to a box and do a more triangular movement, or you could grab some dumbbells and…
That wasn't true several years ago during the Uncle Rhabdo phase, and Crossfit only changed its tune because of the overwhelming bad press about injury rates. Back then, it was about doing exercises as fast and as many times as possible.
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I can't verify the quality of these studies but it seems that injury rates per 1000 active hours of crossfit at 0.27 - 0.74 [1] are significantly lower than more common sports such as running at 2.9 - 4.4 and basketball at 6.3 - 12.9 [2] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6201188/ [2] http://bionics.seas.ucla.edu/education/Rowing/Injury_2004_01...
The fundamentals of Crossfit are entirely sound. A warmup followed by some subset of bodyweight exercises, calisthenics, rowing, running, climbing, and (olympic) weightlifting is a completely reasonable fitness regimen. Being sensible is a matter of leveling the workout to your own particular circumstances: age and overall fitness being the two biggest factors. But yeah I've also seen the videos on youtube of people…
People, specially who are new, haven’t gotten serious injuries, or just don’t understand how exercise can get you high, tend to fall in the WoD trap from my observations.
There have been a great mindset change with CrossFit in terms of sharing good knowledge, welcoming new members no matter their level and mixing everyone together but still everyday seems to be race day in CrossFit.
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That’s because people are impatient and weak. Dead hang pullups are real pullups. Kipping only leads you to kipping muscle ups. Go on YouTube and see examples of real muscle ups from dead hangs with no momentum. That is true strength, and a worthy goal. The sooner you stop kipping, the faster you can get there.
I have the greatest respect for gymnasts, because they are basically top of the heap for pound for pound strength. It's not an area of expertise for me though, so please enlighten me: if using momentum to get a kipping muscle up and then gradually reducing the momentum assist until you can do it strictly isn't the right progression, what is?
Same goes with handstand push-up with against the wall and that kick up. That’s one of the hardest exercises in gymnastics from my experience, why do one want to do that in a HIIT is beyond me.
As for scaling, I never consider not compromising but actually reinforcing proper form even overthinking it, to prepare one for load and speed (when things tend to go awry). As tools and techniques to scale down, there are bands, eccentrics, Grease the groove, etc.
Ps: you seem to have been downvoted but your question seemed legit to me. I hear that a lot from gym mates
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I power-lifted. I got injured. Many of us did. It's much higher. Even the studies show it: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/wp-content/u... https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2014/07/08/i...
Powerlifting is definitely not the same as general CrossFit and is pretty obviously a dangerous sport. I would guess that based on the amount of jerking and twisting I see in CrossFitters doing powerlifting that the injury rate would be higher still within that specific discipline. Again, all speculation on my part. I’m thinking an intense workout with good form and control vs. a standard CrossFit workout.
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> If you can't use proper form on a rep, don't do the rep. It's that simple. This is sorta disingenuous. A layman can't tell if they're doing an exercise correctly without instruction, and you can do something correctly 99 times and still becomes seriously injured by doing it incorrectly one more time. I'm not trying to make an argument that you shouldn't exercise but it's definitely not "simple."
It is not disingenuous. Many crossfit exercises are complex as you correctly observe and require a good bit of practice before you can do them w/ any substantial weight. A layman should not do them w/out instruction and a good coach will not let laymen do regular workouts until they have mastered the basics. A good coach also observes a new student's abilities and advises them how to scale the movement properly as th…
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What would you say about other intentionally anti-intellectual dogmas? I do think they are worth considering, but also worth criticizing when they're proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be worse than useless.
> worse than useless what is anyone's goal when partaking in exercise? And how about joining a club? Look at the CrossFit Games winners - do you think they've achieved nothing? I don't partake in it, for the record. And I do acknowledge that many of the exercises seem ill-advised. But I made an account after like 6 years of lurking to point out that you're being pretty dogmatic in your criticisms of dogmas.
I do think it's blatantly obvious that Crossfit is anti-intellectual consumer cult. They advertise this themselves.
It's a bit much to say every single person who does XFit is stupid, but I was sharing my own observations honestly.
Have you met any MLM people? Would you not say the same? Crossfit intentionally dismisses science and warnings related to potential problems with health and injury. Is that not unethical?
Also, all of my negative Crossfit comments seem to have been hit with the same exact number of downvotes here. I wouldn't expect it, but also wouldn't be surprised if there is some brigaiding here.
I see a lot of scepticism towards CrossFit here and it's probably with good reason, but I just want to add that your experience with the method of training is very dependant on the actual gym you go to. Where I started training (and I was like the definition of "out of shape") the coaches preach form > intensity every step of the way and actually forbid you to do any dynamic movement before you have not sufficently m…
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