Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 138 posts

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#31

Post by killjoywashere »

firethief wrote: post #13
docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

America has the same business culture; what's saving (most of) us is our better-functioning regulatory culture.

This is actually something Hank Paulson comments on in his book "Dealing with China": the Chinese have a huge government, but they actually have something like a half to a third as many government workers per capita. And their comms infrastructure, despite the Huewai bruhaha, is severely lacking in comparison, so those additional people don't stretch as far.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#32

Post by mc32 »

internet_user wrote: post #29
mc32 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m only speaking to the interaction between Greenpeace and Japan, which is mostly concerning whaling. Japan kind of reluctantly puts up with their behavior. China won’t. They have near zero chance of making any impact in China.

Perhaps a Greenpeace ship needs to be attacked by Chinese on live TV in order to gain momentum? We need eco-martyrs too.

It won’t affect them just like when Russia poisons defectors abroad on foreign soil. Lots of noise and complaining but nothing can come of it. They’re too big.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#33

Post by PhasmaFelis »

internet_user wrote: post #26
bArray wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I hate to see the environment getting destroyed, eco-terrorism is not the way forwards. Every normal person is empowered to help: purchase from people whose ideals you agree with, win the hearts and minds of those around you, re-use everything you safely can.

So how do you propose we deal with psychopaths that dump radioactive waste into steel that then goes into your napkin box? Ask them nicely again?

Bans. Sanctions. Diplomatic action. Force their government to crack down on them.

Terrorism is basically narcissistic. It never, ever helps anything, but it feels so good to lash out at bad people, so you convince yourself that you're a hero when all you're really doing is turning people against your cause.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#34

Post by Red_Tarsius »

admn2 wrote: post #25
Consultant32452 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also recycled* in China. *: In this context recycled means shipped to China and then dumped into the ocean.

Is that actually what happens to our recycling? I was just wondering today how all this plastic gets repurposed. Does it get shipped overseas then dumped?

Some plastic is used to make polyester clothing, but the latter can't be recycled any further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyF9MxlcItw

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#35

Post by sephamorr »

tty2300 wrote: post #28
mrnobody_67 wrote: post #20

We also know the source of the plastic in the ocean... turns out it boils down to a very small number of rivers, in a very specific region of the world. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...

Likely to change soon. Those areas have stopped buying plastic waste from the rest of the world.

Having seen the trash coming down several of these rivers in person, everything I could identify seemed to be of local origin. I certainly didn't see non-local languages written on plastic bottles, for example.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#36

Post by roywiggins »

docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

There's plenty of precedent for this sort of thing in the West's industrial past. Being a fast-growing economy and also keeping a strict eye on product purity, has it ever successfully been done before?

Not to say that as an excuse, but it's not at all an uncommon pattern.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#37

Post by internet_user »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #33
internet_user wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you propose we deal with psychopaths that dump radioactive waste into steel that then goes into your napkin box? Ask them nicely again?

Bans. Sanctions. Diplomatic action. Force their government to crack down on them. Terrorism is basically narcissistic. It never, ever helps anything, but it feels so good to lash out at bad people, so you convince yourself that you're a hero when all you're really doing is turning people against your cause.

Apparently, returning fire in an economic war is wrong. It's terrorism according to you.

Shipping radioactive waste into your house - not terrorism, according to you.

Nobody will be against punishing people for allowing willfully contaminating products and then decieving you about their safety.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#38

Post by jlawson »

firethief wrote: post #13
docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

America has the same business culture; what's saving (most of) us is our better-functioning regulatory culture.

Really not. Spend some time in China. It won't take long (hours to days) before you notice the utter callousness with which people habitually treat strangers and the environment around them.

It can't be believed until it's experienced.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#39

Post by internet_user »

sephamorr wrote: post #35
tty2300 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely to change soon. Those areas have stopped buying plastic waste from the rest of the world.

Having seen the trash coming down several of these rivers in person, everything I could identify seemed to be of local origin. I certainly didn't see non-local languages written on plastic bottles, for example.

It's just fashionable to blame everything on the West.

The East isn't any different.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#40

Post by roywiggins »

internet_user wrote: post #12
docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

And not to mention dumping radioactive waste into steel/other metal. That's how cadium and lead end up in pencil cases - dump waste into consumer goods, and then ship them to your house. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-growing-global... "India and China were the top sources of radioactive goods shipped to the U.S. through 2008, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Bartley, a metallurgist wh…

A lot of awful things happen because people are just negligent, desperate, and ignorant.

Perhaps a lot of the radioactive scrap is being created knowingly, I don't know. When there are well-documented incidents like this, I can imagine this happening in small ways all the time and stuff just entering the supply chain by accident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Of course when organized crime gets involved your diagnosis of psychopathy is not too far off:

https://gizmodo.com/the-mob-is-secretly-dumping-nuclear-wast...

Post reply on HN