ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei • Hacker News Board

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#221

Post by stickfigure » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #131

thkim wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. Chinese system only works when they are playing catch up. There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. The system doesn't work when they need to push above everyone else.

> There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. And yet mobile payments are integrated into Chinese e-commerce with the frictionlessness that Apple Pay and the others can only dream of. Who defines what "pioneer" is? Is SV not "pioneering" because the vast majority of its companies are trying to be Salesforce and not Uber?

Payments are a cultural problem, not a technology problem. There is absolutely nothing technological that prevents more sophisticated payments systems from being rolled out in the US, except that people don't want to use them.

This is a poor example. You would have been better off going with high-speed rail, although even that is mostly a cultural problem - the cost is not in trains, but land displacement.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#222

Post by MR4D » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

molteanu wrote: post #14

zaphar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

When you're advanced enough, there is no need for you do to IP. Maybe the risk is not worth it or there is nothing to gain from it. It's the same argument with the open markets. When you're already a developed economy, open markets benefit you since you have the best products, your production facilities are in place and you can offer both quantity, quality and reasonable prices. But when you are a developing nation,…

You're confusing two very different things:

1 - Stealing technology from one country and using it within your own country to increase your competitiveness.

2 - Stealing technology from one country and using it to build a competitive advantage for your firms in that first country (or any other country not your own).

The first, depending one which treaties your country is a part of, may not even be considered stealing. The second clearly is.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#223

Post by shuckles » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #220

shuckles wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"with no significant chance of unintended transactions or MITM attacks" I have worked with anti-fraud teams at Alibaba and other unnamed large Chinese firms. This is extremely far from the truth, and shoulder surfing QR scanning scams have been in the national news in China many times. NFC tags are cheap and already being proposed for scooters, etc. QR proliferation is again enabled mostly by the fact that there is n…

I knew the man who was on the team that came with idea of using QR for payment. Their pretty much one and only point was to circumvent Apple's blockade of existing payment mechanisms. And yes, Japanese mail order magazines came with idea of "offline Internet shopping" back in nineties, in era of flatbed scanners

I thank him for keeping me gainfully employed for many months.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#224

Post by esyir » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #125

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan doesn't maintain prison camps for political dissenters, last I checked.

Chinese culture is as capable of tolerating diversity as any other - take a look at Taiwan. Same sex marriage legalized last week. The political institutions in mainland China, on the other hand, are motivated by nationalist tendencies to foment hatred to Other. Aaaand they definitely jail people just for religious group membership so they discriminatory as fuck.

Eh, I don't think most people think of Taiwan when they say "Chinese culture", especially in the US. The mainland and Taiwan are far enough diverged that they should be considered two fairly distant clades.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#225

Post by esyir » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

floatboth wrote: post #197

thkim wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a naive thinking. Advances in software industry are purely intellectual so it doesn't involve heavy cost, which is why open source idea can work and be argued that it promotes innovation. Say you are a pharmaceutical company developing a new drug, investing billions of dollars. If there is no IP, why do it? You need to wake up to reality.

Companies don't develop new drugs, they have no incentives to invest into research when it's vastly more profitable to just increase the price of old drugs, patent drugs someone else developed, pay doctors to promote their drugs, etc. Most of the actual medical research is funded by taxes.

Please read into the drug development process and clinical trials. You might be rather surprised.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#226

Post by NotPaidToPost » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

esyir wrote: post #224

komali2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese culture is as capable of tolerating diversity as any other - take a look at Taiwan. Same sex marriage legalized last week. The political institutions in mainland China, on the other hand, are motivated by nationalist tendencies to foment hatred to Other. Aaaand they definitely jail people just for religious group membership so they discriminatory as fuck.

Eh, I don't think most people think of Taiwan when they say "Chinese culture", especially in the US. The mainland and Taiwan are far enough diverged that they should be considered two fairly distant clades.

Taiwan is 100% Chinese culture.

If people don't think of Taiwan when they say "Chinese culture" perhaps it's simply because they don't actually know about the topic.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#227

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #175

simion314 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, the reader mode has many open source implementations. But I am sure you can find similar cases in ot6her countries, I was wondering some important case/example like China stealing Windows code and making their own not some small company there pirated some software, that happens in other places too.

UC Browser is developed by Alibaba, one of China’s biggest companies. It’s easy to spot instances of stolen JavaScript because it’s injected into the page. Who knows what else they’ve stolen. This is not an open source implementation we’re talking about. There are rumors that much of Huawei’s network stack was stolen from Cisco and Juniper through government-mandated partnerships.

[deleted]

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#228

Post by westiseast » Wed, May 22, 2019, 7:34 PM UTC

Zenst wrote: post #55

leereeves wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And once China starts making discoveries of their own, they'll guard anything they discover. It's naive to imagine that they'll share their IP.

As they did with gunpowder, china-clay, silkworms, tea and even Panda's. I think only Panda's out of that small list have their IP still protected and the rest got industrial-theft treatment over the centuries. Though in fairness - they do share Panda's.

They don't share pandas at all - the pandas are 'rented out' to zoos around the world and subject to intense negotiation and strict contracts. Any baby pandas born on foreign soil still belong to China. So, no, they don't 'share' pandas at all.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#229

Post by elp » Wed, May 22, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #209

yogthos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of open source American tech has roots in NSA and other agencies. Signal and Tor are good examples, yet people seem to trust them.

The operations of a company with size and might of Huawei in China is nothing like the operations of big European or American companies. The Chinese government is very involved. They have offices in the company. Do you think Signal has a government representative on site all the time?

Large American corps spend a lot on lobbying. Its not really different. Also I seem to remember that the CIA's investment company was one of the early investors in Google.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#230

Post by AsyncAwait » Wed, May 22, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #193

molteanu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're advanced enough, there is no need for you do to IP. Maybe the risk is not worth it or there is nothing to gain from it. It's the same argument with the open markets. When you're already a developed economy, open markets benefit you since you have the best products, your production facilities are in place and you can offer both quantity, quality and reasonable prices. But when you are a developing nation,…

By this logic, one could justify chattel slavery in a modern country with an agrarian economy because that was US practice in 1787.

Yes, because saying that every rapidly developing country does IP theft as a way to speed up development, including the U.S., is exactly comparable.

But if you do want to run with something as ridiculous, the U.S. holds the largest prison population on the planet and effectively forces them to do labor at a criminal hourly rate, you could say that's not as far from slavery as many would like to think.