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ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

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Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#151

Post by Zak »

greatpatton wrote: post #146
sanxiyn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US laws should not apply to everyone, but in practice they do, sort of. The most prominent example is internet services censoring nipples due to US stupidity.

US laws apply to everyone because US laws are extraterritorial in nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritorial_jurisdiction

The EU is trying to assert extraterritorial jurisdiction as well with the GDPR and its like. If all countries start doing this sort of thing with any degree of success, international and online business as we know it won't be possible.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#152

Post by criddell »

yogthos wrote: post #17
0815test wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech If only. So far they've been very much the opposite, even in comparison to other CN companies! Which is one key reason why this whole kerfuffle is going to be so much of a problem for them. In theory, they would have plenty to gain by retooling towards open solutions - but everything so far implies that they won't!

Possible, but they're in a completely different situation now where their credibility is under threat. Before they were just another phone company, now they have to prove that their technology is above board.

They were never just another phone company. Their ties to the Chinese government were never a secret.

If the US government partnered with a US company founded by former Defense Department people to build a product called Freedom Fone using mostly open source software, would you trust it?

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#153

Post by DCKing »

sanxiyn wrote: post #138
desdiv wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, other US companies with GPUs besides the first 3 in your list are are open to licensing if the fees are big enough. This is a news story about a UK company being prohibited from dealing with Huawei due to its products containing "US origin technology". So I'm assuming that US GPU companies would also be prohibited from licensing to Huawei due to their IP's "US origin".

Note that Imagination Technologies (a company behind PowerVR) made an explicit statement that they are not affected by US ban because they have no US origin technology. Read Bloomberg report here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-20/european-...

Ah, so PowerVR seems to be still a viable path even if this does not get overturned, and if Huawei can magically move to MIPS or RISC V in a reasonable timeframe.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#154

Post by sanxiyn »

cobookman wrote: post #145
pi-rat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not, you can only escalate this trade war so many times before it becomes unsustainable by one or both parties. China will probably retaliate by banning a major US tech company, maybe Apple? Keep doing this a couple of times and pressure/lobbying/economic damage will force a resolution.

If China bans iPhones I'm 100% positive they'll just be smuggled in.

Sure, but I am also 100% positive it will hurt Apple revenue a LOT.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#155

Post by barbecue_sauce »

Zenst wrote: post #132
theandrewbailey wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pandas.

Yes, a loose connection but as China does treat them as if they are IP and with as much (if not more so) control - I include them. For example - if a country was to clone Panda's without China's consent, the level of outrage and response would be very comparable had some high-level IP had been stolen. But as an isolated example - I'll agree it is a weak one, but worth including for how it is treated as IP by the coun…

I think he was just pointing out that it's Pandas, not Panda's.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#156

Post by criddell »

logicchains wrote: post #78
ghobs91 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case this move against huawei is "just business". It's their problem now to figure out how to develop top tier hardware and software without stealing it from American companies and rebranding it.

I thought the problem was that they had developed something better than what the US currently has, their 5G implementation, and that's what has the US worried.

I always thought that it was about 5G being a significant chunk of future telecom infrastructure (which impacts national defense) and they don't want to buy it from Chinese companies.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#157

Post by simion314 »

shuckles wrote: post #142
simion314 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give a good example similar to what you experienced? The issue is that we read daily about ridiculous patents.

I have noticed that the “reader mode” feature in UC Browser, the most popular browser in China, directly lifted the JavaScript from a similar feature in an American company’s product. Internal bug references, and all.

Interesting, the reader mode has many open source implementations. But I am sure you can find similar cases in ot6her countries, I was wondering some important case/example like China stealing Windows code and making their own not some small company there pirated some software, that happens in other places too.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#158

Post by tathougies »

simion314 wrote: post #79
thkim wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a naive thinking. Advances in software industry are purely intellectual so it doesn't involve heavy cost, which is why open source idea can work and be argued that it promotes innovation. Say you are a pharmaceutical company developing a new drug, investing billions of dollars. If there is no IP, why do it? You need to wake up to reality.

You could pay researchers with money from taxes, then you will get more research into important problems and less into rich people concerns like baldness and beauty creams. Mathematicians,physicists also do a lot of research and they do not ask you to pay them to use their findings.

> Mathematicians,physicists also do a lot of research and they do not ask you to pay them to use their findings.

What? of course they do. The moment a physical reaction or process is applied to industry, you can bet someone will file a patent.

At engineering school, it is common for professors, students, etc, to patent technology they invent. Colleges have entire departments.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#159

Post by simion314 »

Zak wrote: post #147
simion314 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could pay researchers with money from taxes, then you will get more research into important problems and less into rich people concerns like baldness and beauty creams. Mathematicians,physicists also do a lot of research and they do not ask you to pay them to use their findings.

Central economic planning doesn't have an especially good track record. While one could certainly argue that market economies put a lot of resources into things that aren't important or good for the world, they've done better over the past 100 years at not having people starving to death.

The historical example is not such a clear because there are other variables like wars that caused large destruction and countries that lost the war had to pay damages.

What I am thinking is this, the smart people that want to become scientists do not do it to make money for some company, they do it for passion and help people in the case of people that learned to become doctors and research medical treatments. You need a system that finds this smart people when they graduate and place them in research institution paid by the public. You can have private companies research other stuff but don't put all the core research into private companies that are motivated of making profit. You have for example the military founded by tons of money that some of them go into research, my suggestion is have health research similarly prioritized as the military. You could even pay private research institution but when you pay for research all the results get put in the public domain.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#160

Post by A2017U1 »

thommark wrote: post #97
yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

I don't think EU will trust Huawei at all. Recently my country Netherlands has found backdoors in Huawei equipments https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-huawei-tech/d... . and the biggest telecom in my country just banned huawei in its 5G network. I am sure this will prompt more countries to reject Huawei, especially if one of the bigger countries like Italy, France, or Spain rejects them.

> Recently my country Netherlands has found backdoors

That's not what that article says at all.

Meanwhile: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/evidence-of-backdoors-i...

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