Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s a button in the UI to switch off AutoPilot data collection with no loss of functionality. When you first get the car and enroll I believe they prompt you then as well. (Opt-in!) [1] You can also email Tesla and tell them you want to go dark in which case they shutdown the LTE connection entirely. Then you have to go get firmware updates at the dealer and of course online traffic aware maps, and streaming radi…
> switch off AutoPilot data collection Is that the only data collection a Tesla engages in? > You can also email Tesla and tell them you want to go dark in which case they shutdown the LTE connection entirely. But how can I be sure that they've done so? And how can I be sure they wouldn't turn it back on at some point in the future? > of course online traffic aware maps, and streaming radio won’t work. That is actual…
Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
221–230 of 256 posts
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
As well they should. Until the steering whee is removed, it’s always the driver’s responsibility to operate the vehicle.
Tesla has repeatedly made misleading statements about the ability of their systems, and has intentionally caused these crashes. It is a very well known fact among people working in these fields that a half automated system is a disaster waiting to strike. Human-only controls require the driver to stay focused. Invisible enhancements (power steering) and enhancements used in emergency situations (collision avoidance b…
AutoPilot is perfectly safe if you look out the damn window while it’s operating. There are some disputed statistics saying that it is in fact safer on than off, even over the same type of miles. AutoPilot has in fact been safely operated for over a billion miles in the real world.
Drivers need to look out the window. It is not in any way difficult to maintain situational awareness while operating under AutoPilot for extended periods of time. In fact I find it easier to stay alert for longer periods of driving — that is, longer drives are less tiring — when using AutoPilot. It is in no way akin to “watching paint dry”.
The claim has been made that Level 2 autonomy is dangerous because of the ability for the driver to become distracted. This is actually true of all modes of driving, and relevant from Level 0 through Level 4 autonomy. Smartphones are often cited as the reason why driving death rate stopped falling for the last several years. Meaning distracted driving has killed thousands of drivers in that time. Distracted driving has also killed 3 people while AutoPilot was engaged. This is tragic, but it is wholly the drivers’ fault.
Using AutoPilot for about 5 minutes will disabuse you of the notion that you don’t have to pay attention. Anyone who has used it will testify that there is no question the driver needs to monitor it. The name of the feature, or Elon’s fantastical claims of future capabilities, is basically only perturbing to those who haven’t actually used the feature.
However, I think it is reasonable to question whether Tesla AutoPilot presents simply too great a temptation to willfully abuse the system. That is, to check your cellphone or watch a movie or otherwise take your eyes off the road. Not because it is hard or too difficult to remain focused, not because the driver believes they don’t need to be looking out the window, but because while the driver knows they should watch the road, they decide to cheat anyway. Unfortunately the same thing happens in Level 0 vehicles, which tragic results, all the time.
It’s reasonable to question how much cars should be monitoring the attention/gaze of the driver and alerting, chastising, or otherwise forcing the driver to re-engage. But any such discussion would be superficially anti-Tesla if it were to disregard the universal nature of the problem of distracted driving.
Mandatory driver attention monitoring systems, in all cars from Level 0 to Level 4 autonomy, would likely save over a thousand lives a year in the US alone. It might even save 1 life a year in a Tesla.
Your false equivalence with Boeing is egregious. Pilots stuggling to maintain control over a fatally flawed plane is not even on the same league as a distracted driver watching a movie while their car hurtles down the highway into the side of a big rig. The pilots of the 737 were in no way negligent or distracted whatsoever. They were actively subverted by a malfunctioning airframe intent on flying them into the ground, god rest their souls.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
The U.S. federal gov’t, via HIPAA, took a stance on what health providers could do with patient data, rather than settling for a stance of “just find the nearest hospital with your preferred terms and conditions” or “keep in mind you don’t need to see a doctor”
> you don't need to buy a tesla > you don’t need to see a doctor Totally ridiculous strawman.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Under the radar. Without visibility. How does it come as a surprise when things that were only recognized as having gone on underneath layer after layer of technical jargon are finally brought to general public awareness? You don't get in trouble for doing things, you get in trouble for getting caught doing them. It's been a long time in coming, but awareness is finally starting to hit tipping points in meaningful wa…
Under the radar. No, literally by the radar... I'm confused what you mean. Surely it's not news to a pilot that ATC facilities save radar data. For how long is a different question.
Under the radar is an idiom. It is used to describe things that occur in areas not typically subject to observation, or widespread acknowledgement/general awareness. In this case by regulators, or the public in general.
I think you might have misunderstood the poster above you when they suggested trying to fully automate airplanes; maintaining the analog of every sensor required to fully enable totally automated operation would require the installation of full suites of broadband sensors on the plane, allowing it to collect all information with regards to the environment it is working in, and sending it "back home". Admittedly, this is less problematic, because planes don't operate within the confines of everyday life, and thus are not omnipresent, capable of acting as a ubiquitous surveillance platform.
When I say this has been going on "Under the radar", I'm referring to the slow adoption of increasingly more varied and densely packed sensor packages in vehicles offered to provide some token discount, but with very little oversight into what type of data is generated, communicated, stored, or otherwise.
Planes being tracked by radar is fine. That comes with the mode of transport. It's an air transport's version of a Stop light or signage.
Long term persisted data collected by cars, however, is not, and should not be.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#225Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you don't need to buy a tesla > you don’t need to see a doctor Totally ridiculous strawman.
You are in a fucking daft dream world to think Tesla is the only carmaker to have computers and data. Jesus Christ.
Article is not about cars that "have computers and data" its about connected cars that are sharing personal information ( how fast we drive, where we live, how many children we have — even financial information ) with manufacturer.
Do you know what % of cars in the market today are sending this information back to manufacturer ?
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#227If I'm a pedestrian getting my body filmed, 3D-scanned, with potential facial recognition and internal-organs-penetrating sensors added on top, _I'm_ the one who should own that data (and the right to not consent to its collection in the first place). Why are people weirded out by some Google Glass-wearing rando filming them on the sidewalk but ok for everyone behind a wheel to be suddenly promoted to a CCTV omnisens…
Yeah, also if you see me in the corner of your vision and remember that I wore a red shirt, I’m going to need you to forget that. That’s my data. If you brushed past me on the metro, I’d like you to avoid collecting my DNA off my clothes or hair. I didn’t give you that consent. So don’t do it. If you’re driving up to a pedestrian crossing and you use posture, direction, eye contact, etc. to determine if someone is at…
In Germany for example Google Streetview is mostly not available, because a significant percentage of people considered it unacceptable and have the right to opt out of it, and the company has to blur faces, houses, addresses and so on.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure I follow, as I do have a say in this as do you and every other person in this country :). To argue someone doesn't have to say is a tad weird.
Maybe you misread it? Otherwise is a straw-man.
Wasn't trying to take away your rights, but rather the opposite. There's an old saying, "your rights end at the tip of my nose."
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#229> Modern cars collect as much as 25 gigabytes of data per hour. Links to this McKinsey study as a source: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/... Which says: > Today’s car has the computing power of 20 personal computers, features about 100 million lines of programming code, and processes up to 25 gigabytes of data an hour. McKinsey doesn't cite any sources. But more importantly, processing 25…
Processing means some conclusion was reached. You don't have to transmit 25gb of data to be spied on - only the results of having processed it.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, we disagree on this :). Sure, I'll take a stab at that. Data is data, it doesn't belong to someone just because they played a role in creating it. You don't care about the water company tracking your water usage or knowing how often you flush your toilet is my guess. Yet that is data you are creating. If you found out the water company was checking your dropping for drug usage and selling that to the government…
> You don't care about the water company tracking your water usage or knowing how often you flush your toilet is my guess. I do care, actually. I consent to the water company tracking how much water I use over the billing period, because they need to do that to bill me. I do not consent to any data collection or use beyond that. > I would argue the intent of data is what matters and this discussion is really about. I…
I quite agree.