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Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

reuters.com

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Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#81

Post by vfulco2 »

TheOperator wrote: post #14
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

I wouldn't cargo cult everything leaders like Jack Ma propose just because they're highly successful. Sure some 996er's at a company at say, the senior management level can be worth it since you do actually get more work done. Abliet incredibly inefficiently while getting paid the entire time. I don't see how its efficient to have the core of your business being nothing but employees who are working at decreased effi…

they are seen as cogs in a machine, when they break replace them. like the matrix

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#82

Post by ta34729384 »

_iyig wrote: post #56
ddeokbokki wrote: post #36

> heavyweights such as Sequoia Capital’s Mike Moritz highlighted it as a competitive advantage over the United States. It's an issue when the so-called tech heavyweights don't understand the basics of worker productivity in the industry.

What if 996 work hours do, on average across a large population, make workers more productive? When they burn out, they are easy to replace. Would this justify such a work schedule? EDIT: This post is not in support of 996. Does anyone do Socratic dialogue in comment threads anymore?

> Does anyone do Socratic dialogue in comment threads anymore?

Not since "begging the question" became an acceptable way to enforce "official" modes of thought in places like this.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#83

Post by tamrix »

pault wrote: post #31
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Normally I can only do about 4hr/day of productive work, but with my ADD meds I can do 6-8 (big surprise: amphetamines allow you to work more). I do work longer hours, but I don't try to squeeze every ounce of mental energy; I spend the extra time catching up on all of the planning and documentation that doesn't involve intense mental focus. In my middle age I've actually started enjoying the planning and documentati…

I agree. I work for one of the big four tech companies and we are all on prescription drugs to enhance our work productivity. Although it's not enforced, anyone who isn't popping uppers and downers just can't keep up in this industry and falls out.

There's one guy here on 18! Yes, you read that right, prescription drugs. He is so smart and productive and it shows! Fancy car and house. He's smarter than everyone here.

I'm only on 9 prescription drugs. I hope one day to be as rich and smart as him when I work my way up to 18.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#84

Post by boomboomvoom »

tamrix wrote: post #83
pault wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I can only do about 4hr/day of productive work, but with my ADD meds I can do 6-8 (big surprise: amphetamines allow you to work more). I do work longer hours, but I don't try to squeeze every ounce of mental energy; I spend the extra time catching up on all of the planning and documentation that doesn't involve intense mental focus. In my middle age I've actually started enjoying the planning and documentati…

I agree. I work for one of the big four tech companies and we are all on prescription drugs to enhance our work productivity. Although it's not enforced, anyone who isn't popping uppers and downers just can't keep up in this industry and falls out. There's one guy here on 18! Yes, you read that right, prescription drugs. He is so smart and productive and it shows! Fancy car and house. He's smarter than everyone here.…

He must be backed up on the other end for days and you half that time stockpile some docusate

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#85

Post by Aromasin »

copperx wrote: post #74
Aromasin wrote: post #16

On a somewhat related note, I'd love a set of those pictured sleep capsules at my office. I've taken to running to my car to catch a quick 20 minute snooze during my lunch break, but it's way too bright, I'm uncomfortably sleeping sitting slightly upright, and I've got to have the windows open in a noisy car park. Having a cool, dark, dedicated sleeping pod would be much more civilised.

Having an office with a door that closes solves that problem too. I have one and take naps on the floor with a yoga mat and a pillow I bring from home on my lunch break. It's sad that most workplaces are still "open." Even when I was a grad student I took naps on my library cubicle. Cubicles would be a step up from the warehouse setup of most workplaces.

That would be wonderful, but my company has fully embraced the 'open office' idea. Even upper management have offices that are completely windowed. All this setup seems to achieve is to provide on open door for people to ask questions that could be done over email, interrupting work flow every couple of minutes so no one gets anything done.

The best chance I'd have of finding a place to nap in private would be finding a crate of packing peanuts in dispatch and hoping I get shipped off to France.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#86

Post by drchewbacca »

tamrix wrote: post #83
pault wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I can only do about 4hr/day of productive work, but with my ADD meds I can do 6-8 (big surprise: amphetamines allow you to work more). I do work longer hours, but I don't try to squeeze every ounce of mental energy; I spend the extra time catching up on all of the planning and documentation that doesn't involve intense mental focus. In my middle age I've actually started enjoying the planning and documentati…

I agree. I work for one of the big four tech companies and we are all on prescription drugs to enhance our work productivity. Although it's not enforced, anyone who isn't popping uppers and downers just can't keep up in this industry and falls out. There's one guy here on 18! Yes, you read that right, prescription drugs. He is so smart and productive and it shows! Fancy car and house. He's smarter than everyone here.…

You're joking right? This sounds like Brave New World.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#87

Post by drchewbacca »

dcolkitt wrote: post #22
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you. But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours? I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different. It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in…

One explanation would be that the causation is the opposite: watching the business succeed makes people excited and so they start doing longer hours because they mistakenly hope that will make things go better.

Working at a reasonable, sustainable, pace requires big discipline. It's hard for a computer game studio with a release coming in 12 weeks to stick to 40 hours because that will get them 12 great weeks. They'll tend to slide into 80 hour weeks in panic but end up doing less.

I think two real issues are that you can't compare against a control version of the company and you can't tell you are slowing down because you are tired.

Another issue is management. Most managers think hours in means more productivity out, it's hard for them to not fall into that seeing as it is so widely held as true.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#88

Post by C1sc0cat »

logfromblammo wrote: post #59
C1sc0cat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? In the UK I and another developer delivered in a month what another part of the companies would take 18 months. And we where physically not allowed to be in the office (BT Princess street) outside normal working hours because embarrassing security cockups six months before involving the Queens unlisted numbers :-)

I once sat a desk next to another developer. He finished a UI control in 3 days, and then found out it completely replaced a legacy control that took multiple developers six months to finish. And then shortly thereafter we both got laid off, and the slower folks kept their jobs. It is a mistake to believe that the only requirements are the ones that the developers get to see.

Well We had a main Board member as a sponsor and another Board member "Bruce Bond" who was very interested.
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