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Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

reuters.com

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Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#31

Post by pault »

drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Normally I can only do about 4hr/day of productive work, but with my ADD meds I can do 6-8 (big surprise: amphetamines allow you to work more). I do work longer hours, but I don't try to squeeze every ounce of mental energy; I spend the extra time catching up on all of the planning and documentation that doesn't involve intense mental focus. In my middle age I've actually started enjoying the planning and documentation process; to me, it's part of the craft, and what makes the difference between good software and great software. Trying to code for 12 hours straight is counter-productive, but spending an extra four hours tidying up really does add a lot of value.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#32

Post by close04 »

bpicolo wrote: post #12
close04 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think initially you get 50% more productivity with 50% extra hours in the work week. After a week or two though you’re lucky to break even and get the 40h worth of productivity. After another week or two it’s all but guaranteed that overall productivity is actually lower, you’re just destroying your health and possibly screwing up the work.

I'm not sure that's true. I doubt most people can't maintain productive focus for 12 hours of a work day.

I doubt most people can maintain productive focus for 12h every day more than a few consecutive weeks. They may at the beginning but fatigue sets in and by the end they are less productive than after a good 8h day. I’ve seen it in others, I went through it myself. Perhaps in some fields it’s different but I doubt it.

Even playing games 12h every day means you start making more and more mistakes than a fresh gamer. I’d say normal work will be even more tiring and stressful given the higher stakes. Especially for a knowledge worker.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#33

Post by chris_wot »

whoevercares wrote: post #25
hh42 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a Silicon Valley company. And now I am an employee of the Chinese 'A' company. There are endless features we have to develop. As a developer, I also need to concern about the business value of our project. Basically, I should handle two times of work than before.

That’s true. I heard Chinese internet CTOs saying this about a feature that took a year to launch in NA when they do recruiting in CA: “We can deliver this in two weeks with the same team size”

Surely that should raise massive red flags and you should realize almost immediately that this is problematic - basically don't do business with them?

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#35

Post by foobarqwertz »

dcolkitt wrote: post #22
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you. But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours? I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different. It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in…

Looking at the games industry where passion stands for self exploitation. If you don't push back most employers will take everything they can get.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#37

Post by HansLandaa »

rb808 wrote: post #28

I know a lot of Korean and Chinese school kids who cram study until late and night and that is just normal. I suspect 996 isn't that weird to many young Chinese developers because that is what they've done their whole lives. 9pm is probably an earlier end than when they were doing homework. Even in the US now children are getting more and more homework and stressed out about getting into the most prestigious universi…

In Korea they actually passed a law banning private prep classes after midnight. And there are "raids" to stop the students from studying! The mentality there is very different from the US

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#38

Post by babuskov »

2sk21 wrote: post #10
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's often in spurts. Some days I get nothing done but then there are other days when I can go 12 hours straight. Worst for me are days with one meeting in the morning, one before lunch and then one in the afternoon. These days are effectively lost because I lose my train of thought and spend the whole day struggling getting things back together in my head. Such days are negative in productivity.

This. Even a 15 minute meeting can have very a disruptive effect on my thinking process if it comes at the wrong moment.

Reminds me of this comic:

https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt...

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#39

Post by jtr1 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #22
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you. But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours? I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different. It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in…

It all hinges on what you mean by "success." Is it profitability + growth? Burning through employees like jet fuel can work pretty well.

If you want a humane answer, you might have to reframe the question.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#40

Post by hackerbabz »

foobarqwertz wrote: post #35
dcolkitt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you. But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours? I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different. It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in…

Looking at the games industry where passion stands for self exploitation. If you don't push back most employers will take everything they can get.

But the question is, what do they get?

Would they develop products faster if the employees worked less?

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