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Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

reuters.com

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Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#21

Post by asark »

drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

I can do way more as long as it's not all the time, and the work's interesting. Think 80hrs writing some software, followed by a lighter week that's mostly cooking involved meals, or gardening, or prototyping board games, or building furniture. Maybe no code written for another 5-6 weeks. That'd be my "natural"—absent economic pressure—relationship with projects and with writing software. Maybe a week a month or less, but very heavy and focused when in that mode. Then heavy and focused on something else for a while.

But yeah, my "real work" limit for a day's probably like 4hrs tops in any kind of sustained way. I've rarely seen a job that can manage to keep even that much real work slung my way on a regular basis, though. And at this point I provide 90+% of my value just by knowing the right thing or having the right insight, and communicating that info. That top-of-the-value-pyramid work is maybe a handful of minutes a week, on a good week. Most of my salary's justified by a few hours a year—it's just hard to know which hours it'll be.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#22

Post by dcolkitt »

drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you.

But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours?

I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different.

It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in anyone who has insight on this.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#23

Post by matz1 »

crispyambulance wrote: post #9

Can anyone from China who has worked a 996 provide an account of what the work is like? Do they have heavy PMP-managed work with meeting paralysis or is it just sitting at your desk and being expected to magically perform, or is it just sitting around doing nothing and not being able to leave? All of those are their own types of hell, but they're all different. What are they doing in those 12 hours?

I have some experience but the things is obviously I don't work 12 hours a day continuously. I took plenty of breaks as needed. Also help is I live very close to the office and the pay was good. Overall I saw it as a positive experience.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#25

Post by whoevercares »

hh42 wrote: post #20
crispyambulance wrote: post #9

Can anyone from China who has worked a 996 provide an account of what the work is like? Do they have heavy PMP-managed work with meeting paralysis or is it just sitting at your desk and being expected to magically perform, or is it just sitting around doing nothing and not being able to leave? All of those are their own types of hell, but they're all different. What are they doing in those 12 hours?

I worked for a Silicon Valley company. And now I am an employee of the Chinese 'A' company. There are endless features we have to develop. As a developer, I also need to concern about the business value of our project. Basically, I should handle two times of work than before.

That’s true. I heard Chinese internet CTOs saying this about a feature that took a year to launch in NA when they do recruiting in CA:

“We can deliver this in two weeks with the same team size”

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#26

Post by hh42 »

whoevercares wrote: post #25
hh42 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a Silicon Valley company. And now I am an employee of the Chinese 'A' company. There are endless features we have to develop. As a developer, I also need to concern about the business value of our project. Basically, I should handle two times of work than before.

That’s true. I heard Chinese internet CTOs saying this about a feature that took a year to launch in NA when they do recruiting in CA: “We can deliver this in two weeks with the same team size”

What's worse, they just treat us as 'Resources'. One single developer should take care of several projects.(ﾉ｀⊿´)ﾉ

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#28

Post by rb808 »

I know a lot of Korean and Chinese school kids who cram study until late and night and that is just normal. I suspect 996 isn't that weird to many young Chinese developers because that is what they've done their whole lives. 9pm is probably an earlier end than when they were doing homework.

Even in the US now children are getting more and more homework and stressed out about getting into the most prestigious universities. If that is normal when growing up, spending all your time in the office is just more of the same, except you get paid more than everyone else so society loves you too.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#29

Post by matwood »

dcolkitt wrote: post #22
drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

Intuitively and introspectively I agree with you. But then I ask myself, where are all the successful 30-hour week companies? Why is it that nearly every single successful organization has a culture of long hours? I personally know that I can't sustainably work 10+ hours a day. But the observed results in the real world seem to say something different. It's hard to square that circle, and I'm genuinely interested in…

That's because even though productivity does not scale linearly with hours it can continue to go up. That little bit extra can make a big difference where the margins between success and failure are small.

Re: Some of China’s '996' tech tribe quit, seek less stress

#30

Post by arethuza »

drchewbacca wrote: post #2

Personally I can't do more than 2-3 hours of genuine "deep work" per day. That is high quality, focused, immersed thinking on a difficult problem and writing code. IMO people who work a large number of hours each week get cognitively slowed. They can't tell they've slowed down (partly because they don't have a control to compare against) and so think that if you do 80 hours per week you'll do twice as much as if you…

None of this has anything to do with maximising actual objective performance - I suspect its just a way of executives competing by having their teams work longer and longer hours to show how "tough" they are.
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