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Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

thesociologicalreview.com

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Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#31

Post by geofft »

DanBC wrote: post #16
bschelsea wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great thanks for proving my point. Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Oh also COPPA exists for this very deluded thinking that “technologist” like you have.

This article is from England, and the context is a person in England who died by suicide, and the English government advancing white papers that talk about online harm. In that context, the English rules abuot medical treatment seem useful. Someone the age of 16 or over is assumed to have capacity to make medical decisions by themselves (and there's complex law to regulate if they're thought to lack that capacity). S…

Interesting! Wikipedia claims: "The House of Lords focused on the issue of consent rather than a notion of 'parental rights' or parental power. In fact, the court held that 'parental rights' did not exist, other than to safeguard the best interests of a minor."

I am of the opinion that we should give significant credence to a minor over the age of, say, eight who says "I do not trust my parents to act in my best interests." This may generally involve having a qualified doctor or social worker evaluate the child's best interests instead of making the child decide, but at least a doctor or a social worker, unlike a parent, had qualifications to evaluate the options and has no conflict of interest unlike a parent.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#32

Post by geofft »

bschelsea wrote: post #28
trophycase wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So block/delete instagram? I agree that something should probably be done, but I had to take the same steps to block reddit and the like.

I completely agree with you, except Apple indiscriminately destroyed an entire industry of parental control apps under guise of Privacy. How is a parent supposed to enforce this (blocking Instagram).

With Apple's built-in parental control tech? Literally Apple only killed the industry once they made a free alternative that does exactly this.

Wanting to be a bad parent is one thing, but at least get your facts straight.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#33

Post by DanBC »

geofft wrote: post #32
bschelsea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, except Apple indiscriminately destroyed an entire industry of parental control apps under guise of Privacy. How is a parent supposed to enforce this (blocking Instagram).

With Apple's built-in parental control tech? Literally Apple only killed the industry once they made a free alternative that does exactly this. Wanting to be a bad parent is one thing, but at least get your facts straight.

> Wanting to be a bad parent

There's no need for that.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#34

Post by colechristensen »

jdsully wrote: post #29
colechristensen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if the current situation isn't ... resolved ... resulting in a significant transfer of power either by precedent, legislation, or judicial action away from the executive to the judicial branch, the legislative branch, and the states – I think if that doesn't happen that this will be an inflection point leading to the failure of the American Republic. I think too many people take for granted the stability and…

In my opinion the parliamentary system has proven to be more effective. In this system the Prime Minister with a majority has near dictatorial control over both the legislature and the presidency so that he/she can move quickly. However the backstop is the no confidence vote which operates like impeachment. This is not a theoretical power but is exercised relatively frequently in parliamentarian systems. Failure to p…

Watching Brexit doesn't inspire me with confidence about parliamentary systems, and I think it would work much worse in America which has a different set of problems. The diverse societies and economies of the regions of the US would not be well represented by a winner-take-all approach – the founders had a lot to say about the dictatorship of the majority. They had good points and the problems they feared I think would be worse in the US than in many of the parliamentary governments of the world. People in the US often times have a hard time realizing that their society isn't universal.

The basic problem currently in the American system is overpowered political parties which didn't fit in to the original set of checks and balances. It isn't clear if there is a simple amendment which could fix the system or if it is more of a social problem.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#35

Post by icebraining »

jdsully wrote: post #29
colechristensen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if the current situation isn't ... resolved ... resulting in a significant transfer of power either by precedent, legislation, or judicial action away from the executive to the judicial branch, the legislative branch, and the states – I think if that doesn't happen that this will be an inflection point leading to the failure of the American Republic. I think too many people take for granted the stability and…

In my opinion the parliamentary system has proven to be more effective. In this system the Prime Minister with a majority has near dictatorial control over both the legislature and the presidency so that he/she can move quickly. However the backstop is the no confidence vote which operates like impeachment. This is not a theoretical power but is exercised relatively frequently in parliamentarian systems. Failure to p…

At least in my parliamentary country, a PM with an absolute majority can also block a no confidence vote, which is why only 1 of 30 such votes in the last 45 years have actually passed. Is it different in other countries?

> I think deep down the US feels that as well. The democracies they have created throughout the world do not mirror the US system of government.

Well, that assumes those decisions are made solely with the best interests of the people in those democracies in mind.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#36

Post by bschelsea »

geofft wrote: post #32
bschelsea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, except Apple indiscriminately destroyed an entire industry of parental control apps under guise of Privacy. How is a parent supposed to enforce this (blocking Instagram).

With Apple's built-in parental control tech? Literally Apple only killed the industry once they made a free alternative that does exactly this. Wanting to be a bad parent is one thing, but at least get your facts straight.

That’s false, alternatives offered by Apple don’t even come close to functionality provided by third party apps. E.g. easily using the browser instead of app.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#37

Post by jdsully »

icebraining wrote: post #35
jdsully wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the parliamentary system has proven to be more effective. In this system the Prime Minister with a majority has near dictatorial control over both the legislature and the presidency so that he/she can move quickly. However the backstop is the no confidence vote which operates like impeachment. This is not a theoretical power but is exercised relatively frequently in parliamentarian systems. Failure to p…

At least in my parliamentary country, a PM with an absolute majority can also block a no confidence vote, which is why only 1 of 30 such votes in the last 45 years have actually passed. Is it different in other countries? > I think deep down the US feels that as well. The democracies they have created throughout the world do not mirror the US system of government. Well, that assumes those decisions are made solely wi…

Compare this with no US president ever being removed from office (although I will concede Nixon was pretty close). A no confidence vote passing once every 50 years is downright frequent in comparison.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#38

Post by jdsully »

colechristensen wrote: post #34
jdsully wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the parliamentary system has proven to be more effective. In this system the Prime Minister with a majority has near dictatorial control over both the legislature and the presidency so that he/she can move quickly. However the backstop is the no confidence vote which operates like impeachment. This is not a theoretical power but is exercised relatively frequently in parliamentarian systems. Failure to p…

Watching Brexit doesn't inspire me with confidence about parliamentary systems, and I think it would work much worse in America which has a different set of problems. The diverse societies and economies of the regions of the US would not be well represented by a winner-take-all approach – the founders had a lot to say about the dictatorship of the majority. They had good points and the problems they feared I think wo…

The UK system has survived many hundreds of years and crises far more severe than the US has ever experienced (the US has never been at serious risk of a land invasion). No system of government is without its embarrassments and messes, but the UK's parliament has been battle tested and is proven.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#39

Post by paulryanrogers »

danaris wrote: post #30
jstarfish wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Instagram's problem, nor should it be made to be. Apple could certainly do more to facilitate MDM, but a phone known for letting your parents track your GPS and MITM your communications would not prove popular with the kids. In the end the parents are the ones provisioning the device, paying the phone bill and are ultimately responsible for both it and its user...yet they have no administrative privileges ov…

Giving parents unfettered ability to violate their children's privacy does not serve the children's interests. Many parents are abusive. Many children are discovering a sexuality or identity that their parents would find unacceptable. In these cases, and many more, ensuring that the parents can read every single message their children send—and every single website they access—is much more likely to lead to serious ne…

Would such abusive parents get their child a private phone knowing it limits their power over the child?

Maybe privacy-respecting tech is one of many solutions to bad parenting. Though I suspect getting to know ones neighbors well would be a far more effective first step.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#40

Post by DoreenMichele »

In my Twitter timeline, posts about self harm or suicidal ideation are generally met by a supportive atmosphere of concerned people.

When there is the opportunity, I try to make comments that validate people in a way that doesn't promote or encourage self harm, suicide attempts, etc.

I've attempted suicide. I know a fair amount about such issues.

No, shutting down the conversation isn't a good move. Instead, we need to promote best practices that make such conversations more constructive.

It can be done.

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