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Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

thesociologicalreview.com

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Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#11

Post by jdietrich »

bschelsea wrote: post #7
geofft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a technologist, I don't think I have a responsibility to the daughter's parents, either to do anything about the situation or to explain anything about it. I do have a responsibility to the daughter to get her the help she needs; that help is potentially not from her parents.

Great thanks for proving my point. Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Oh also COPPA exists for this very deluded thinking that “technologist” like you have.

> Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order.

Many states allow minors to receive mental health treatment without the consent of their parents and allow those minors to retain confidentiality.

https://dx.doi.org/10.1080%2F1067828X.2013.777380

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#12

Post by CM30 »

jdietrich wrote: post #2

The worst syllogism in modern politics: Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done.

It's one of the reasons the US system seems to be working best in these times; the constitution making laws difficult to change works perfectly to stop moral outrages and controversies and make people reconsider whether that 'something' is the best solution.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#13

Post by DanBC »

bschelsea wrote: post #3

Huh that’s a bizarre take on the situation. Try explaining this to a parent whose daughter is suffering from ED and Self Harm. The sociologist/apologists won’t let instagram do anything since it breaks their fantasy of free speech being always “net” positive. And Apple won’t let the parent monitor her own daughter because think about PRIVACY!!!! The truth is the industry optimizes for anarchy under the guise of liber…

I agree with you, it's not a great article.

I submitted it because it's currently the best available piece advancing this position. Regulation will come, and if people don't want that regulation they'll need to develop much better arguments than this.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#14

Post by bschelsea »

jstarfish wrote: post #6
bschelsea wrote: post #3

Huh that’s a bizarre take on the situation. Try explaining this to a parent whose daughter is suffering from ED and Self Harm. The sociologist/apologists won’t let instagram do anything since it breaks their fantasy of free speech being always “net” positive. And Apple won’t let the parent monitor her own daughter because think about PRIVACY!!!! The truth is the industry optimizes for anarchy under the guise of liber…

It's not Instagram's problem, nor should it be made to be. Apple could certainly do more to facilitate MDM, but a phone known for letting your parents track your GPS and MITM your communications would not prove popular with the kids. In the end the parents are the ones provisioning the device, paying the phone bill and are ultimately responsible for both it and its user...yet they have no administrative privileges ov…

Instagram is enabling destructive behavior hurting society, how is this NOT their problem. Sure legally maybe not but how about ethically. Unless of course if ethics cannot be codified as a crypto smart contract they don’t matter.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#15

Post by trophycase »

bschelsea wrote: post #9
jdietrich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have suffered from severe treatment-resistant depression since childhood, but that's completely irrelevant - anecdotal experiences are no substitute for good data. The best available data suggests that social media has a mix of positive and negative effects on self-harm and suicidal behaviour, with no clear net effect. Ill-conceived policy with a poor evidence base may stifle healthy conversation and connection, wh…

PLOS One has very little reviewing standards and accepts almost all papers. Given how strongly linked smartphones are to all aspects of life. You are vastly underestimating difficulty of taking aways someone’s smartphone. Since worst case you can ask Cops and Telecom provider for location.

So block/delete instagram? I agree that something should probably be done, but I had to take the same steps to block reddit and the like.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#16

Post by DanBC »

bschelsea wrote: post #7
geofft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a technologist, I don't think I have a responsibility to the daughter's parents, either to do anything about the situation or to explain anything about it. I do have a responsibility to the daughter to get her the help she needs; that help is potentially not from her parents.

Great thanks for proving my point. Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Oh also COPPA exists for this very deluded thinking that “technologist” like you have.

This article is from England, and the context is a person in England who died by suicide, and the English government advancing white papers that talk about online harm.

In that context, the English rules abuot medical treatment seem useful. Someone the age of 16 or over is assumed to have capacity to make medical decisions by themselves (and there's complex law to regulate if they're thought to lack that capacity). Someone under 15 or under can also have that capacity: the doctor would need to check if the patient is Gillick Competent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillick_competence

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#17

Post by geofft »

bschelsea wrote: post #7
geofft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a technologist, I don't think I have a responsibility to the daughter's parents, either to do anything about the situation or to explain anything about it. I do have a responsibility to the daughter to get her the help she needs; that help is potentially not from her parents.

Great thanks for proving my point. Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Oh also COPPA exists for this very deluded thinking that “technologist” like you have.

Medical procedures, yes. But it's standard for doctors to ask parents of minors to leave the room so the doctor can speak privately, even if they don't suspect abuse, isn't it?

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#18

Post by sandworm101 »

jdietrich wrote: post #8
bschelsea wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me when your daughter is suicidal and suffering from ED/Self Harm.

I have suffered from severe treatment-resistant depression since childhood, but that's completely irrelevant - anecdotal experiences are no substitute for good data. The best available data suggests that social media has a mix of positive and negative effects on self-harm and suicidal behaviour, with no clear net effect. Ill-conceived policy with a poor evidence base may stifle healthy conversation and connection, wh…

Taking away a teenagers phone might be an answer, but it comes with risks. Disconnecting a child from their peer group should not be done casually. (let's not kid ourselves. That's what taking a phone away means.) It may have the desired effect, but will likely have a great many unexpected effects too.

And I would bet good money that she would acquire another phone very quickly.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#19

Post by orhmeh09 »

bschelsea wrote: post #9
jdietrich wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have suffered from severe treatment-resistant depression since childhood, but that's completely irrelevant - anecdotal experiences are no substitute for good data. The best available data suggests that social media has a mix of positive and negative effects on self-harm and suicidal behaviour, with no clear net effect. Ill-conceived policy with a poor evidence base may stifle healthy conversation and connection, wh…

PLOS One has very little reviewing standards and accepts almost all papers. Given how strongly linked smartphones are to all aspects of life. You are vastly underestimating difficulty of taking aways someone’s smartphone. Since worst case you can ask Cops and Telecom provider for location.

That is not true about PLOS One and it’s not a line to just drop whenever anyone links to a study on there. Please substantiate these kinds of statements.

Re: Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’

#20

Post by jdsully »

CM30 wrote: post #12
jdietrich wrote: post #2

The worst syllogism in modern politics: Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done.

It's one of the reasons the US system seems to be working best in these times; the constitution making laws difficult to change works perfectly to stop moral outrages and controversies and make people reconsider whether that 'something' is the best solution.

The reaction seems to be concentrating power in the President who can "do something". The centralizing of power and erosion of the original US system has been monotonic for the last 200 years.

First they came for the states by broadening the interstate commerce clause far beyond any rational reading. And now congress has ceded its authority in key areas such as treaties (fast tracking), declarations of war, and in process now: the right to subpoena information (we'll see how this one turns out).

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