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Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

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Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#281

Post by TeMPOraL »

JorgeGT wrote: post #144
scarface74 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or end up like people investing in “smart homes” in the 90s. Remember when built in intercom systems in the home were considered advanced? http://mentalfloss.com/article/510559/what-smart-home-techno...

They had quite advanced smart homes back in the 80s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BHIknNa6Eg (and to Nest shame, they still service it! http://unitysystemshomemanager.com/ )

Holy shit, the UX on that video is better than what typical apps today deliver. Nice find!

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#282

Post by rconti »

dustinmoris wrote: post #153
optymizer wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, for one, am enjoying my 'smart home' setup, where I can say "Alexa, turn off the TV", "Alexa, turn on Chromecast" and "Alexa, set the bedroom temperature to 72", regardless of which floor of the house I'm on. I'd rather fiddle with updates and setup once in a while (I have never had to reconfigure the devices in 2 years), than look for that goddamn remote between couch cushions, press the power button and possibly…

> I would hate to make that trip downstairs, annoyed and grumpy. My grandma always said "What you don't have in your head you must have in your legs". My calculation is simple: Where do I expect to waste more time in my life? Periodically configuring/updating smart home devices, getting to the bottom of issues if something doesn't work as expected, or once in a while walk the stairs an extra time because I left the T…

Periodically? I've spent DAYS of my life wrestling with my Harmony Home Hub. It's only worth it because my A/V cabinet is off to the side of the room with opaque doors, otherwise I'd just juggle the 5 remotes.

I have a very basic SmartThings setup to play with, and, same deal, days of my life for something that basically doesn't ever work. Every time I open the app I'm supposed to enable 2fa or sign up for a Samsung account instead, the prox tags never stay paired (and the batteries die almost immediately), the batteries on the sensors die constantly, and the actions only mostly work. It thankfully doesn't do anything that important to me, it's more of a silly side project I messed with a few times, but I've gone no further because it doesn't solve any actual problems, but it sure creates a bunch.

I definitely am not interested in getting into the business of figuring out whether I want to have light switches or smart bulbs that can change color, and how to ensure the SWITCH is on so that the BULBS always have power and can be activated via an app, or whether I need to now glue on a wall control, all so that I can.. have the same functionality it used to have.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#283

Post by la_barba »

AlexandrB wrote: post #189
rhacker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

> In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with extra security at your door or backyard, or a something to that effect I'd like you to come back and admit it. I heard this same song and dance 5 years ago. The problems with the "IoT" market are foundational. Most IoT devices are not designed to be used for extended periods without internet access and a continuous stream of updates. Th…

>Most IoT devices are not designed to be used for extended periods without internet access and a continuous stream of updates.

But you could design one with a manual fallback option. Doesn't seem foundational to me. Nothing about an IoT design prevents one from doing that.

>The latter means that unlike traditional home hardware, once you install "smart" devices you're at the mercy of the business plans of the vendor. So even if you get something set up that works acceptably, it will last 5 years tops (see Nest) before the vendor's priorities change.

Yes, that is the downside of dealing with any service oriented business, in any domain. But again, you can have a manual fallback option (as I think most devices do FWICT)

>Finally to address the "extra security" comment. Security from what?

I suppose it depends on what you consider security. For an intruder alert system, you'd need something that can transmit a notification to someone. An IoT device seems like a good option, but I guess you could also use a device that can send a text over a cellular network.

I personally have no use for anything IoT, but I think its premature to go completely in the other direction and say that IoT is completely useless. What we're seeing with so called "disruptive" technologies is that things get worse (or sometimes a lot worse), before they get better.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#284

Post by rconti »

ajmurmann wrote: post #276
dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

"It's just not a problem which I think people have, but somehow the consumer industry has convinced so many fools to buy cheaply fabricated, badly secured, even worse programmed and often not long supported smart home devices which add absolutely no benefit to anyone's everyday life and cause lots of problems." I'm not a big fan of smart devices, but I've had several issues that were solved very conveniently by smart…

Ecobee was (I think) the first one to have remote temperature sensors, and now Nest has them, too.

Yes, they're (still) smart devices, but this can work without the smart functionality. The sensors detect which room humans are in, and adjusts so that the thermostat controls the heat to get the OCCUPIED room to the desired temperature. So, no 'device with an app' required (eg, this could be replicated without internet functionality).

Most fans these days ship with wireless remotes. Even my wall switch is a wireless remote. So the light and fan can be controlled separately -- no IoT required here as well.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#285

Post by Karunamon »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #224
rhacker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

Smart security system? Sure. Smart everything else? Why? What happens when your internet goes down? What happens when criminals buy a $100 wifi jammer and ruin you? Didn't anyone watch the movie Smart Home?

If your threat profile includes the kind of targeting that criminals with radio jamming hardware imply, you need a lot more than the $100 WiFi system you can get off the shelf on amazon.

And then what are the other options? It’s not that hard to build/buy cell jammers either.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#286

Post by DannyBee »

chaostheory wrote: post #260
DannyBee wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport stuff, Ping, Monster branded beats headphones, etc. You can get support for mac/etc stuff for 5 years after purchase (which admittedly is nice). However, before you decide that is awesome, things like the headphones were killed with no support regardless of purchase date. Apple also refuses to call anything it stopped manufacturing "canceled" at all. It deliberately tries to message this part, calling them "v…

Even if you count the iPod classic, that's not a lot of things Apple cancelled compared to Google.

Because they didn't try in the first place?

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#287

Post by weberc2 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #275
weberc2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your only exercise is walking to the light switch you have bigger problems.

It's cumulative.

Turning off the lights is negligible to your overall health. Automating it (or not) will not affect your obesity or other health outcomes. There are lots of reasonable arguments against IoT switches; this is not one of them. Let's move on.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#288

Post by KoSS4U »

iscrewyou wrote: post #205
rhacker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

I don't have a smart home device and I won't buy it in a few years. And the simple reason is that there is no regulation for bad behavior. These companies keep getting away with massive privacy violations. We can dig into the big companies but at this time, that point has been beaten to death. When there is better regulation and the software engineers are being jailed for violations of privacy, I will trust the syste…

I guess you also don't have a credit report after what happened to Equifax in 2017... In the meantime, for me my Vera works just great. Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#289

Post by cameronbrown »

stephenr wrote: post #272
bradlys wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even a matter of "safe". I live in a neighborhood that is seen as very safe. Yet, we had a burglary two houses down not too long ago. And they happen frequently enough to myself. I've had plenty stolen. Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught. I ended up buying a camera for peace of mind and for checking in on my place to see who's entering my residence area. Sometimes it's genuinely help…

> Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught. If you're only interested in recording what happened (as evidence) an IP camera can run on PoE to a laptop or mini-pc on a UPS, and record for as long as you want, even in the case of a power outage if you include a UPS (an old laptop works well in this case - you can potentially just run the PoE switch/injector on the UPS and let the laptop run on its ba…

This misses the actual advantages that a managed service provides, like the fact you don't have to worry about the stuff you mentioned. Does your solution scale to multiple cameras? Will you get push notifications when movement is detected while you're on holiday? What if that very laptop is stolen? Would be ironic.

I'm not saying your solution is bad, my house has the same thing (with 4 cameras around the house), but most people don't want to spend time managing yet more stuff, and debugging their camera system if something goes wrong.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#290

Post by oarabbus_ »

Karunamon wrote: post #285
oarabbus_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart security system? Sure. Smart everything else? Why? What happens when your internet goes down? What happens when criminals buy a $100 wifi jammer and ruin you? Didn't anyone watch the movie Smart Home?

If your threat profile includes the kind of targeting that criminals with radio jamming hardware imply, you need a lot more than the $100 WiFi system you can get off the shelf on amazon. And then what are the other options? It’s not that hard to build/buy cell jammers either.

>And then what are the other options? It’s not that hard to build/buy cell jammers either.

Analog locks opened with a physical key.

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