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Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

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Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#211

Post by anbop »

dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

I love having voice activated lights. I live in a loft where all the lights are upstairs to keep the cords away from my toddler. When we get home, instead of needing to go upstairs, I can turn on the lights from downstairs, and have also set it up to only work when you say “please” to teach her proper manners.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#212

Post by inertiatic »

optymizer wrote: post #141
dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

I, for one, am enjoying my 'smart home' setup, where I can say "Alexa, turn off the TV", "Alexa, turn on Chromecast" and "Alexa, set the bedroom temperature to 72", regardless of which floor of the house I'm on. I'd rather fiddle with updates and setup once in a while (I have never had to reconfigure the devices in 2 years), than look for that goddamn remote between couch cushions, press the power button and possibly…

The drive to get that extra bit of efficiency, eventually, for what is a time-wasting activity such as watching TV, is something that most people lack.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#213

Post by ansible »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #113
ansible wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy Cory Doctorow's recent book "Radicalized": https://craphound.com/category/radicalized-full/ The protagonist starts out by jail-breaking her toaster, which was designed on only toast authorized bread. However, the company that produced it went out of business (taken over by a hedge fund), and the authentication servers were shut down, so now the toaster couldn't toast anything.

That's hilarious, if not sad.

Hilarious and sad describe much of Doctorow's work.

Though I'd characterize "Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town" as superbly creepy.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#214

Post by TeMPOraL »

dgzl wrote: post #148
AlexandrB wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just not a problem which I think people have, but somehow the consumer industry has convinced so many fools to buy cheaply fabricated, badly secured, even worse programmed and often not long supported smart home devices which add absolutely no benefit to anyone's everyday life and cause lots of problems. This. Every time I hear a friend or someone on a podcast talking about their smart home they talk about how…

I had a very high maintenance roommate and friend who is really into the easy smart-home devices. My understanding is he just likes the world to bend to his will as he maneuvers around in life. The doors unlock automatically, Nest changes our home temperatures as we walk in, "hey Siri, change lights to dance party", "play top radio". "What's the news today". Even though he earned a degree in computer science, he wasn…

> My understanding is he just likes the world to bend to his will as he maneuvers around in life.

That would be cool, I'd like that too. Problem is, this only exists in a) marketing material, b) sci-fi movies, and c) if you do everything yourself. In the IoT industry, competition itself is ruining most of the "smart" devices' utility. They won't be useful until apps, hubs and devices are completely independent and commoditized, and you could argue they might not be useful to regulars even then (cue the long discussion on why stable society is incompatible with interesting life).

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#215

Post by MegaButts »

AlexandrB wrote: post #189
rhacker wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

> In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with extra security at your door or backyard, or a something to that effect I'd like you to come back and admit it. I heard this same song and dance 5 years ago. The problems with the "IoT" market are foundational. Most IoT devices are not designed to be used for extended periods without internet access and a continuous stream of updates. Th…

I can buy the notion that smart devices are dumb for a litany of reasons. But the notion that security cameras are dumb, regardless of whether or not they're smart, is absurd. Most people use it to try to find/deter package thieves. Many people park their cars out front and want to be able to identify a license plate in case of a hit-and-run. I use security cameras to check on my pets and to make sure the dog walker isn't stealing anything. I also once found out my landlord was illegally entering my apartment.

You live in fantasy world if you think nothing bad will ever happen to you just because you have high regard for your neighbors.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#216

Post by chomp »

richk449 wrote: post #173
chomp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I halfway agree with your comment. I think smart home technology is still in the realm of tinkerers right now, and investing in an ecosystem requires a lot of forethought. I replaced all of my dumb light switches with zwave light switches, but the nice thing is that they still act as light switches. I bought dumb IP cameras that can stream RTSP instead of going to someone's "cloud". I feed all of this into a homeassi…

> there's something magical about walking into the living room and saying "Hey Siri, good morning" and having your TV kick on, automatically start streaming the morning news Magical in the sense that hell is magical?

I don't understand. What is wrong with using technology to curate our experience in our homes?

You can make a nice experience for yourself without throwing privacy and security out of the window. It does take some network design and careful selection of devices (e.g. shunning Alexa and Google Assistant), but with the right setup you can do some very cool things while staying safe and not giving up your right to privacy.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#217

Post by bradlys »

smbullet wrote: post #199
AlexandrB wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with extra security at your door or backyard, or a something to that effect I'd like you to come back and admit it. I heard this same song and dance 5 years ago. The problems with the "IoT" market are foundational. Most IoT devices are not designed to be used for extended periods without internet access and a continuous stream of updates. Th…

Not all of us live in safe neighborhoods like yourself.

It's not even a matter of "safe". I live in a neighborhood that is seen as very safe. Yet, we had a burglary two houses down not too long ago. And they happen frequently enough to myself. I've had plenty stolen. Without a camera, there's ~0% chance of anyone being caught.

I ended up buying a camera for peace of mind and for checking in on my place to see who's entering my residence area. Sometimes it's genuinely helpful.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#218

Post by TeMPOraL »

rhacker wrote: post #174
dustinmoris wrote: post #97

Smart people don't buy smart home devices. My relatively poor grandparents and my slightly less poor parents had a hard working life, but none of them had to sleep in a dark cold room because the switch to turn the lights on or the heating stopped working. Ever. This problem has been solved by other people many many years ago. Last month I watched a documentary where a billionaire was showing of his multi million man…

This is the exact kind of comment that would make it to the top because it just empowered everyone that DOESN'T have one such system. It's filled with finger pointing. Most of the replies basically point out yeah, I hate IoT lights, but this use case is good... It's not genuine to dismiss the entire enchilada because YOU don't have it. In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with ex…

> In 5 years when all the crap is worked out and you eventually buy a system with extra security at your door or backyard, or a something to that effect I'd like you to come back and admit it.

It won't be worked out in 5 years, because the issues with IoT aren't technological, but business. Go to a random Hackerspace and half of the people you find there could build better IoT devices (and many are). IoT's main issue is garbage products designed as vehicles to lock you into some vendor's "ecosystem". It won't get better until it all gets commoditized.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#219

Post by mike00632 »

stickfigure wrote: post #204
pjc50 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't dismissing it because they don't have it, they're dismissing it because the UX is terrible, it's too high maintenance, and the future of any individual solution uncertain. In some ways it's like pre-iPhone mobile apps. They absolutely did exist, but were mostly too much hassle until they could be seamlessly downloaded from the App Store, sandboxed, and held to quality standards. We're still in the Symbi…

How many people in your house know how to operate your (presumably non-smart) AV system, with its receiver and four different remotes? When someone new comes over, how long would it take them to figure out how to watch a movie?

Woah, that is a right. I'm thinking now of such common phrases when you visit someone's house: "Can you turn on the TV?", "How do you change the volume?", "Which remote do I use?".

Recently my sister's response was, "Actually, you use the X-box controller." What a future we live in.

Re: Nest, the company, died at Google I/O 2019

#220

Post by pjc50 »

stickfigure wrote: post #204
pjc50 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't dismissing it because they don't have it, they're dismissing it because the UX is terrible, it's too high maintenance, and the future of any individual solution uncertain. In some ways it's like pre-iPhone mobile apps. They absolutely did exist, but were mostly too much hassle until they could be seamlessly downloaded from the App Store, sandboxed, and held to quality standards. We're still in the Symbi…

How many people in your house know how to operate your (presumably non-smart) AV system, with its receiver and four different remotes? When someone new comes over, how long would it take them to figure out how to watch a movie?

There's a TV remote and a satellite remote. Press the "Netflix" button on the TV remote.

(Having said that, I failed to watch a DVD at the weekend; the Xbox wouldn't play it as it was region locked, then I realised that I'd not hooked up the DVD player in the six months since buying the television, and it flaked out trying to play on my laptop.)

None of this makes me think that a "home automation" system will be any more convenient or reliable. I've only just made my peace with the "smart TV". I wanted a dumb TV, but will admit that the smartness has mostly delivered. It even seems to have HDMI-CEC that works with the satellite box from a different manufacturer. It still occasionally nags about updates or informs me that something it shipped with no longer works or requires a new EULA.

I have dealt with the complexity of "AV recievers", whatever they are exactly, by not knowing why I might need one and not having one.

The one feature I may end up building is the ability to listen to the TV in the kitchen, which I may do by running thirty feet of wire.

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