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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#161
post #100

Does anyone know if these tenants were covered by any rules preventing the landlord from not renewing their lease? If not, the landlord could always choose to not renew their lease the next year, install the smart locks, and then lease out the apartments to tenants who have explicitly acknowledged and approved of the smart locks. I wonder if the courts would still try to enforce a no-smart-locks policy in that case.…

Yes, rent stabilization/control requires that the leases be renewed.

And yes, these kinds of smartphone locks are often used by landlords as a way to try to harass out their rent controlled tenants, who are less likely than younger market rate tenants to have or know how to use smartphones.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#162
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's roughly what happened here. Although I knew he was likely in there because he parked his motorbike outside. He was actually in my 2 year old daughter's bedroom when I opened the door. I heard him leave it and come down the stairs. Small argument ensued and he sent me an SMS right there on his phone saying that he was coming to do an inspection on date X which was that day. Then said "oh sorry must have be…

"He was actually in my 2 year old daughter's bedroom" I think I would have phoned the police at that point!

I did. See one of my other comments.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#163
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home This doesn't really require a smart lock. In Germany it's common to replace the lock immediately once you rent a place and put the original lock back in when you move out. This prevents the landlord, previous tenants and whoever else might still have keys from entering without your permission.

Replacing locks is typically very expensive unless you have the expertise to do it yourself though? One can easily pay £500 ($700 USD) to change the locks on a home in the UK.

A new lock core costs about $25 and can be replaced (from the inside) by a locksmith or slightly handy super/landlord in no time flat.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#164
post #22

When I was last renting (in the UK) I changed my locks the day I moved in, then swapped them back to the original cylinders when I left. I thought it was pretty good practice not to have a door with an unknown number of previous tennants, cleaners, letting agents, landlords etc with access.

It never occurred to me not to change the locks. The minute I start paying rent, I always saw it as my home.

Upon viewing the place, I make explicitly clear that I expect it to be cleaned and anything that's broken shall be fixed prior to my taking possession and that I will consider the contract null and void if it's not. I ensure this is written into the contract so that if it's not taken care of, the contract is null and void the moment possession is granted.

I ensure that the landlord understands that I expect to be allowed to treat this as my home and that I will decorate to my taste for the duration of my occupation of the property.

The locks get changed the day I move in, pictures are taken to record the state of repair before furniture is moved in. I write up an inspection report with copies of the pictures attached and send it to the landlord.

I decorate as I see fit.

When I leave, I put the house back to the same state or better than it was when I arrived. If I have had to replace any appliances that didn't meet my requirements, I put the original appliances back and take mine with me. The place is left as I would expect it to be when I took possession, which is immaculate.

I take pictures as evidence of the cleanliness of the property and hand copies of these with my keys to the landlord the day I move out. This is mostly as a "You know I took pictures of everything when I moved in, and now I've taken pictures of everything as I'm moving out so don't try anything shady or you will be caught in a lie."

If the landlord wishes to complete an inspection during my stay, they can give me the legally required amount of notice so I can be home to let them in and see them out.

In the 25 years I've been renting properties, I have had only 2 landlords on short leases give me any kind of problems. I've never had a security deposit withheld. I've never been evicted and barring these 2 particular landlords, who failed to meet their obligations as landlords - i.e. fix broken water heaters and burst pipes etc. which I had to foot out of my own pocket and then go through arbitration to recover the costs, I've had nothing but cordial relationships with every landlord I've ever had.

I know there's a shit ton of bad landlords out there and that my experience has largely been one of luck given that I rented student digs too and there's plenty of landlords that prey on students who don't know any better; but it horrifies me how many people allow landlords to treat them with anything less than complete respect. It's your home, you're paying for it. They may own the deed. They may pay the mortgage company. They may be responsible for the upkeep. But it's your home. You should ensure the lease/contract allows room for you to treat it as such before you agree to sign it.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#165
post #159
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that straightforward here in the UK. Well it is but the other way. The landlord has no right to enter a property outright. The property is for exclusive enjoyment by the tenant according to law. They can give 24 hours' notice and enter to do repairs etc but you can refuse that outright and they have no rights beyond that without taking you to court. If they turn up unannounced this is actually harassme…

You might be interested in the not very good movie "Pacific Heights" about a psychopathic tenant, if you want to see a fictional telling of how bad it can get for a landlord.

I certainly understand how bad it can get for landlords. I'm not excusing any bad tenants here for sure. I will at least read the synopsis for that film :)

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He evicted us because he could rent it out for more money. Something about your comment makes me think there's more to this story.

Doesn't have to be. That landlord move was so popular here in Toronto, that they outlawed it. For example, $75k in fines: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/02/24/landlord-fined-7...

Totally agree. Good to hear this level of enforcement is taking place.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#168
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My wife decided to add insult to this injury by spreading marmite all around the inside of the letter box." This was the part where you lost my support. That's a bit too petty.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

> We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection.

That may be a criminal act in your jurisdiction. My local laws allow the landlord access, but the landlord needs to provide 48h notice of the inspection (with a list of specific exceptions for emergency work, mostly around plumbing and electrical work) and cannot bar the tenant from being present during the inspection.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#169
post #22

When I was last renting (in the UK) I changed my locks the day I moved in, then swapped them back to the original cylinders when I left. I thought it was pretty good practice not to have a door with an unknown number of previous tennants, cleaners, letting agents, landlords etc with access.

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property. There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not…

If you need to get in a house you own in an emergency that could cost 100's of thousands of dollars why wouldn't you just break a window, or call a locksmith? I don't think the tenant would be responsible for these damages unless the incident was caused by their negligence.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#170
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about having some actually solid walls and doors first instead of the cardboard-like materials of many US apartment buildings?

Family recently bought a house in the US, and it is pretty. But it is mainly wood by the looks of it. I do wonder how well that works (for y'know, not being fire hazard and not being terribly insulated, being able to whither bad weather conditions, ..). I have not visited their new place yet so I can't comment on what it is like to live there. But houses in Europe just look more sturdy. That is one thing that makes m…

Wood is an excellent material for construction. And yes, construction code does require fire prevention, which is typically achieved using non-flammable drywall. You're at much more risk in a fire from the contents of your house burning (like wooden furniture) than the house itself. Wood is also stronger than masonry against earthquakes and some other threats.

Also, the structure itself is a depreciating asset. It's the land that gains value over time. This is true in Europe as well.

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