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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#151

Post by sjwright »

setquk wrote: post #140
sjwright wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

Sometimes it is not about personal gain but making sure that any unfair gains are worthless.

How does smearing marmite make the unfair gain worthless? It might make you feel smug for a few hours, but if your enemy is vindictive, it could be used against you.

The best move is to avoid playing the game.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#152

Post by djsumdog »

sjwright wrote: post #142
robaato wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a recent tenancy agreement I've seen: g) Permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents on reasonable notice and at reasonable hours to enter the premises to view the state and condition thereof and if necessary to carry out repairs, alterations or other works. s) Not to change or install any locks on any doors or windows of the premises or to make duplicate keys thereto and to return all such keys to the Landlord…

The first and second terms are unpalatable but could be tolerated under limited circumstances. I would look at concealing a remote-monitored security camera by the front door to catch and alert any unwelcome visitors. But that third term is a deal-breaker. Eight weeks of living in an unsafe, insecure home with no privacy? I'm not paying rent for that.

That third one is pretty common in many countries. In New Zealand one of my letting agreements allowed them to show the unit a month prior to moving out.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#153

Post by arethuza »

setquk wrote: post #133
arethuza wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced stuff like that from a couple of landlords while I was a student - one of the reasons I was quite happy to buy my first flat at 23 (mind you - that was a long time ago). Edit: I almost attacked one landlord when I found someone rummaging in a cupboard at night! Landlord was quite indignant when we pointed out he couldn't come and go as he pleased.

Yeah that's roughly what happened here. Although I knew he was likely in there because he parked his motorbike outside. He was actually in my 2 year old daughter's bedroom when I opened the door. I heard him leave it and come down the stairs. Small argument ensued and he sent me an SMS right there on his phone saying that he was coming to do an inspection on date X which was that day. Then said "oh sorry must have be…

"He was actually in my 2 year old daughter's bedroom"

I think I would have phoned the police at that point!

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#154

Post by djsumdog »

Faaak wrote: post #56
lqet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that you can be held liable if, for example, a fire breaks out in your apartment, the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. [0] as others have mentioned below, th…

If there's an emergency, you kick the door. If it's not an emergency, then you don't need to enter the apartment without the tenant.

What about a broken waterpipe? That's the most common emergency where a landlord or maintenance staff needs access to prevent building damage.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#155

Post by klodolph »

londons_explore wrote: post #79
sc11 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home This doesn't really require a smart lock. In Germany it's common to replace the lock immediately once you rent a place and put the original lock back in when you move out. This prevents the landlord, previous tenants and whoever else might still have keys from entering without your permission.

Replacing locks is typically very expensive unless you have the expertise to do it yourself though? One can easily pay £500 ($700 USD) to change the locks on a home in the UK.

That is very expensive. In NYC I paid less than $700 to have a high-quality lock drilled out and replaced with a new high-quality lock after hours when I locked myself out. The technician broke two drill bits removing the old lock and it took an hour.

When I replaced my locks at a previous apartment I paid $40 for the new lock and installed it with a single screwdriver in 15 minutes. Multiply that by 2 if you have a house with two exterior doors. Multiply again by 2 if you want nicer locks.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#156

Post by quickben »

fj39dkf wrote: post #105
setquk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this as well after having a couple of snooping landlords. Also it's empowering. One rental I had, prior to the tenancy deposit protection scheme I had a serial con artist landlord. At the end of the tenancy, he billed my entire £600 deposit return to three companies he owned. One for gardening, one for cleaning and one for maintenance. This made it difficult for a claim to be placed upon him. This was without e…

He evicted us because he could rent it out for more money. Something about your comment makes me think there's more to this story.

Doesn't have to be. That landlord move was so popular here in Toronto, that they outlawed it.

For example, $75k in fines:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/02/24/landlord-fined-7...

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#157

Post by sjwright »

ubercow13 wrote: post #149
sjwright wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

It probably felt good though!

If you prioritise the short term over the long term, then yes.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#158

Post by hmhhcycbtsc557 »

sjwright wrote: post #142
robaato wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a recent tenancy agreement I've seen: g) Permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents on reasonable notice and at reasonable hours to enter the premises to view the state and condition thereof and if necessary to carry out repairs, alterations or other works. s) Not to change or install any locks on any doors or windows of the premises or to make duplicate keys thereto and to return all such keys to the Landlord…

The first and second terms are unpalatable but could be tolerated under limited circumstances. I would look at concealing a remote-monitored security camera by the front door to catch and alert any unwelcome visitors. But that third term is a deal-breaker. Eight weeks of living in an unsafe, insecure home with no privacy? I'm not paying rent for that.

My rental contract (AU) has those three clauses parent poster presents, verbatim. It's sickening. I actually have a mind to go and find out from a lawyer if they're enforceable.

I'm not Australian, but my sense is that tenants are viewed by the law as something between children and moral degenerates.

EDIT: and landlords are permitted to (and do) "inspect the property for damage" on a six monthly basis. At which point they tell you the day before they'll be poking around in your home. I don't know why we stand for it, frankly.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#159

Post by js2 »

setquk wrote: post #144
addicted wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know abounthe UK but I’m pretty sure I’ve had a lease agreement when I was a student that gave the landlord the right to enter at Will. It could still have been illegal, but it was definitely in the lease.

It's not quite that straightforward here in the UK. Well it is but the other way. The landlord has no right to enter a property outright. The property is for exclusive enjoyment by the tenant according to law. They can give 24 hours' notice and enter to do repairs etc but you can refuse that outright and they have no rights beyond that without taking you to court. If they turn up unannounced this is actually harassme…

You might be interested in the not very good movie "Pacific Heights" about a psychopathic tenant, if you want to see a fictional telling of how bad it can get for a landlord.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#160

Post by setquk »

sjwright wrote: post #151
setquk wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it is not about personal gain but making sure that any unfair gains are worthless.

How does smearing marmite make the unfair gain worthless? It might make you feel smug for a few hours, but if your enemy is vindictive, it could be used against you. The best move is to avoid playing the game.

I just asked my other half how she was feeling about it after 16 years and she laughed so clearly petty justice has a lasting effect.

I think the person in question would be in vastly larger amounts of trouble for even raising his head above the cesspool he floated in for a moment. It would be like a chase from the Benny Hill show with local housing enforcement, HMRC, the police and a trail of angry and abused tenants.

The best move is making the game worthless so there are no winners. Shit on the board. It's a stalemate then.

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