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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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131–140 of 367 posts

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#133
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this as well after having a couple of snooping landlords. Also it's empowering. One rental I had, prior to the tenancy deposit protection scheme I had a serial con artist landlord. At the end of the tenancy, he billed my entire £600 deposit return to three companies he owned. One for gardening, one for cleaning and one for maintenance. This made it difficult for a claim to be placed upon him. This was without e…

I experienced stuff like that from a couple of landlords while I was a student - one of the reasons I was quite happy to buy my first flat at 23 (mind you - that was a long time ago). Edit: I almost attacked one landlord when I found someone rummaging in a cupboard at night! Landlord was quite indignant when we pointed out he couldn't come and go as he pleased.

Yeah that's roughly what happened here. Although I knew he was likely in there because he parked his motorbike outside.

He was actually in my 2 year old daughter's bedroom when I opened the door. I heard him leave it and come down the stairs.

Small argument ensued and he sent me an SMS right there on his phone saying that he was coming to do an inspection on date X which was that day. Then said "oh sorry must have been delayed" with a smirk on his face, got back on his motorbike and rode off.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#134
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

Yeah, but it's a complete waste of Marmite. It ought to be illegal to waste such a heavenly thing as marmite like that.

We'll agree to disagree on that. After 22 years of putting up with marmite in the house I still don't like it ;)

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#135
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that you can be held liable if, for example, a fire breaks out in your apartment, the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. [0] as others have mentioned below, th…

It's legal in the UK for a tenant to change the locks, and there's also no law requiring them to provide the landlord a copy of the key. You do have to allow the landlord in for certain reasons (like maintenance) with advance notice, but you can do that by just being home and letting them in yourself. However, the letting contract might prohibit it, and I think commonly does. It's not a right of the tenant to be able…

From a recent tenancy agreement I've seen:

g) Permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents on reasonable notice and at reasonable hours to enter the premises to view the state and condition thereof and if necessary to carry out repairs, alterations or other works.

s) Not to change or install any locks on any doors or windows of the premises or to make duplicate keys thereto and to return all such keys to the Landlord or the Landlord's agents at the end of the tenancy.

v) To permit the Landlord or the Landlord's agents during the last two months of the tenancy to enter the premises at reasonable hours during the day time together with any prospective tenants or purchasers to view the premises.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#136
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My wife decided to add insult to this injury by spreading marmite all around the inside of the letter box." This was the part where you lost my support. That's a bit too petty.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#137
post #19

What happens to such a smart lock if it loses access to electric power (or internet access if it needs one)? Is there a key backup? Do you get locked out of your home if you don't have said backup key with you?

My current apartment has a "smart lock" system for entry into the building. The system becomes unresponsive with no electricity, which means you're locked out. But you can kick open the door anyways, so at least that's an alternative to being locked out.

In my apartment building all of the external access doors are held closed by electromagnetic "locks" that require a key fob to open, unless we lose power, in which case there's no battery backup and they're all unlocked.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#138
post #100

Does anyone know if these tenants were covered by any rules preventing the landlord from not renewing their lease? If not, the landlord could always choose to not renew their lease the next year, install the smart locks, and then lease out the apartments to tenants who have explicitly acknowledged and approved of the smart locks. I wonder if the courts would still try to enforce a no-smart-locks policy in that case.…

[deleted]

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did I say something factually incorrect? Sort of. The capacity for self defense is not evenly distributed and many (I would guess most) HNers live in states and have social circles where gun ownership is not nearly as common, not considered acceptable or is at the very least not talked about. In these states a home invader is much less likely to eat hot lead. People don't realize that in other states there is a near…

Unfortunately, I live in Indiana. Even though it is not a constitutional carry state, it almost is. I can go in and buy long guns without a permit or any check. Or if I want to carry a pistol, I need a permit. I can get a lifelong permit. Signs that say "cant carry guns in premises" can be taken as kind requests. They have no legal backing other than schools and govt buildings. I can legally carry in a state forest.…

A quick Google shows Indiana's laws are actually seem pretty good though obviously constitutional carry would be better.

>I can go in and buy long guns without a permit or any check.

Well, except the NICS check of course...

>Or if I want to carry a pistol, I need a permit.

Smells like infringement to me... but requiring an easy to get permit to carry concealed in public is a pretty reasonable compromise as far as firearm laws go.

>They have no legal backing other than schools and govt buildings.

They can still ask you to leave and if you don't your trespassing and the can ask the cops to ask you to leave.

>Also, getting hold of things like high velocity rounds...

The ballistic performance you need for effective hunting at the kinds of ranges people hunt at in states not covered in forest basically necessitates the high speeds rifle rounds travel at.

>...or armor piercing is relatively easy, given we have high power rifles that can fire through armor.... and there's no license requirement.

Granddad's lever action .30-30 will make a mockery out of the soft vests that anyone who isn't expecting to get in a full blown firefight will be wearing. Those vests aren't designed to stop rifle rounds anyway. Rifles are basically a rounding error when it comes to crime/homicide/death stats so that's why cops, body guards, etc. don't wear vests with rifle plates, the risk is so small it's not worth the inconvenience of wearing a vest with plates.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#140
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We changed the locks originally because we caught him in the place doing an inspection unannounced. All our clothes had been gone through and the computer turned on. Funny sounding inspection. The marmite was deserved. If you’re going to make someone’s life miserable and insecure for six months then we’re going to roll out the red carpet on pettiness.

Nothing is gained by being an asshole to an asshole. All you've done is provided him with documentable proof for how terrible and vindictive he thinks you are. It doesn't matter if every other claim he's made about you was a lie.

Sometimes it is not about personal gain but making sure that any unfair gains are worthless.
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