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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#111

Post by dsfyu404ed »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #64
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't security locks common over there? The typical night latch (Yale lock) is super easy to pick, but it wouldn't be easy to get UK insurance without a 5 or 7 lever Chubb lock, or one of the newer security locks. So pretty much everywhere has one - and quite often both. Newer doors tend to have multiple bolts in three places, operated by the single security key. Just a night latch might be used for internal doors,…

Thats because in the USA, the next level after an easy to pick lock is a dog. And after the dog, is a homeowner with a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. Unlike many jurisdictions all through Europe, the US has guns equaling in quantity to that of Somalia or Uruguay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... Given the amount of guns (100+ per 100 people), and that some have a stockpile while others have…

>Did I say something factually incorrect?

Sort of. The capacity for self defense is not evenly distributed and many (I would guess most) HNers live in states and have social circles where gun ownership is not nearly as common, not considered acceptable or is at the very least not talked about. In these states a home invader is much less likely to eat hot lead. People don't realize that in other states there is a near 100% chance of encountering someone who is armed if you break into an occupied home.

>you can legally blow someone away if you feel threatened

"Feel threatened" is the low bar cops have to meet. Us proles actually have to be threatened.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#112

Post by setquk »

mAEStro-paNDa wrote: post #109
fj39dkf wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He evicted us because he could rent it out for more money. Something about your comment makes me think there's more to this story.

Why? I agree some of the actions are taking it too far, but this part is not that far-fetched. It happens.

I thought I went too far for a few years to be honest. Now I realise that no protection whatsoever was afforded to any private tenants back then other than taking the landlord to court which was expensive, time consuming, resulted in unpaid days off work and generally a waste of time. The moral high ground doesn't necessarily drive the point home either.

Now we have a deposit scheme in the UK which stops landlords doing this because the deposit is held in trust. The landlord has to prove it. Therefore there's escrow and a third party involved. Not being in this scheme is illegal and results in fines that go directly to the tenant as well.

This action is not necessary now, but changing the locks still is because it's your personal space and security and you genuinely don't know who has access to that unless you do it. Could even be the previous tenants with key copies.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#113

Post by Freak_NL »

throwayEngineer wrote: post #72
PunchTornado wrote: post #10

smart locks are useful when you airbnb your apartment. otherwise I don't see the use for it.

Running? I don't like carrying keys

You don't have a place to put a single key, but you do lug along a smartphone to unlock the door again? Just put the key wherever you put the smartphone.

My running pants came with a special key pocket. Before that I just hung a spare key on an old shoelace around my neck.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#114

Post by doikor »

icebraining wrote: post #78
Faaak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's an emergency, you kick the door. If it's not an emergency, then you don't need to enter the apartment without the tenant.

Who pays for the broken door?

Insurance company.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#115

Post by CaptainZapp »

zaarn wrote: post #83
CaptainZapp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the tenancy law is in NY, but in the UK this is supposed to require the permission of the tenant except in an emergency. I can't speak for America or NY, but Switzerland has exactly the same tenancy law. The landlord must announce a visit to the appartment like 48 hours in advance an he cannot abuse the privilege. Essentially you "own" the rented appartment during your tennancy. Emergencies (i.e. a…

>Essentially you "own" the rented appartment. Possession vs Ownership. In some countries, there law makes a difference and in some like Switzerland and Germany, for example, the possession of an object (or apartment) gives you a number of rights that the landlord can't annihilate by adding more words to a contract. While in germany the landlord is the owner of the appartment, they have no right to enter it as they wa…

It's pretty much the same in Switzerland.

Structural changes either need the landlord's approval or have to be reverted to how it was before you moved in.

This can obviously be rather expensive if you tore down a wall.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#116

Post by crankylinuxuser »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #111
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats because in the USA, the next level after an easy to pick lock is a dog. And after the dog, is a homeowner with a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. Unlike many jurisdictions all through Europe, the US has guns equaling in quantity to that of Somalia or Uruguay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... Given the amount of guns (100+ per 100 people), and that some have a stockpile while others have…

>Did I say something factually incorrect? Sort of. The capacity for self defense is not evenly distributed and many (I would guess most) HNers live in states and have social circles where gun ownership is not nearly as common, not considered acceptable or is at the very least not talked about. In these states a home invader is much less likely to eat hot lead. People don't realize that in other states there is a near…

Unfortunately, I live in Indiana. Even though it is not a constitutional carry state, it almost is.

I can go in and buy long guns without a permit or any check. Or if I want to carry a pistol, I need a permit. I can get a lifelong permit. Signs that say "cant carry guns in premises" can be taken as kind requests. They have no legal backing other than schools and govt buildings. I can legally carry in a state forest. I can also legally carry in most midwest and west states. (Pretty much the rule is, not on the coasts with lots of people, and not in Illinois.)

It's common to see someone packing heat in a very non-concealed manner, gunslinger style on their hip. Also, getting hold of things like high velocity rounds or armor piercing is relatively easy, given we have high power rifles that can fire through armor.... and there's no license requirement.

I don't like being around so damned many guns. But that's Indiana in a nutshell.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#117

Post by wil421 »

Y_Y wrote: post #5

Most house locks are trivial to pick in about 30 seconds, and what I've seen of "smart" locks isn't much better. I think if you were really serious about preventing intruders (rather than discouraging opportunism) you need alarms and cameras and someone with a big stick.

Who needs to pick a lock when you can use a rock on a window? Or a rock on a lock.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#118

Post by throwayEngineer »

Freak_NL wrote: post #113
throwayEngineer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running? I don't like carrying keys

You don't have a place to put a single key, but you do lug along a smartphone to unlock the door again? Just put the key wherever you put the smartphone. My running pants came with a special key pocket. Before that I just hung a spare key on an old shoelace around my neck.

I just use a code.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#119

Post by rhinoceraptor »

michaelt wrote: post #65
CaptainZapp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example : [1] & [2] Only the entity ordring the locks is authorized to have additional keys made. And it's pretty heavily enforced by the manufacturers and distibuters. Copies are also more than 5 quid. [1] https://www.dormakaba.com/hr-hr/proizvodi/proizvodi/mechanic... [2] https://www.assaabloy.ch/en/local/switzerland/landingpage/as... Edited to add : While the web pages talk pretty much about smart locks, both…

Maybe it's that I've never rented a nice enough place, but all my past landlords have chosen the £10-a-lock non-patent-protected locks over the £100-a-lock high security locks.

My landlord in the US uses cheap locks, he said he throws them away after each lease and puts in new ones. It was lucky for me one day when I forgot my keys, but had my lockpicking kit in my backpack. It took about 5 minutes to rake both the knob and deadbolt and get in.
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