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Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

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Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#41

Post by hutzlibu »

kolbe wrote: post #27
hu3 wrote: post #19

edit: didn't know people downvoted statistics in HN. Conversely homicides in Brazil registered the sharpest decline in its history. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/22/brazils-murder-rate-fin... > One of the world’s most homicidal countries just registered the sharpest overall decline of lethal violence in its history. Brazil’s murder rate dropped by a whopping 13 percent between 2017 and 2018, from more than 59,000…

This might not be a coincidence. Police shooting people without due process isn't an ethical system of justice, but it could be an effective way to decrease the homicide rate. In many places, the most powerful gang can only be matched or beaten by the government. And if the most powerful gang is too difficult to deter from murdering people by using due process, having cops kill them would probably reduce the overall…

When the police shoots people without process on purpose, then they are just the most powerful gang.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#42

Post by dictum »

brutally-honest wrote: post #26

Just posting this here in reply to a comment whose thread was flagged. Context is "whose definition of criminal should we use". How about "people openly flaunting assault weapons"? As someone who lived in Rio most of their life, I think that's a good line to draw. Opinions filled with "human rights" concerns from people far removed are probably ethically and morally correct, which is... cute. We're fighting an Urban…

> We're fighting an Urban War over here

As soon as you start unpacking why and how you got into an urban war, you'll approach the fussy philosophical questions raised by the human rights crowd.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#43

Post by ufo »

I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the recent news story where the Brazilian army (currently also tasked with policing duty in Rio de Janeiro) fired 80(!!) rounds at a passing car, murdering a musician and and wounding his wife and children. A passerby who tried to help also ended up dying a few days later.

The government was complicit and allowed the case to be tried in a military court so most likely nothing will come out of it.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#44

Post by hazdiego »

hazdiego wrote: post #20
dmix wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was your laptop stolen in Houston recovered by a Mexican police officer? Was there Mexican customs officers or baggage handlers at the Houston airport? I had a friend have his $2500 Macbook stolen from his bag by baggage handlers while in a Thai airport. You're lucky you got it back.

Mine was a Macbook too. It was stolen on that security part where you have to put your personal belongs on the "running machine" (no idea how to call that) and pass through the scanner. The woman that passed before me took my laptop. I thought it was by mistake, but the cameras proved otherwise. Surprisingly or not, nobody cared. I was already hopeless in the airplane (which was late because of it) when this police o…

By the way, would anyone be interested in reading this story? I have the camera recordings with me.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#45

Post by luckylion »

dmix wrote: post #17
lawlessone wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knew this comment would pop up. Some people genuinely want to live in the Judge Dredd universe..

Nearly every news website's comment section for a serious crime has someone saying "we should just line them up and shoot thm, save everyone the time and money". As if this hasn't been said a million times and wasn't a terrible idea each of those million times. Anyone can spend 2min googling "wrongful convictions" and the number of people found innocent by the judicial process to see why. Not to mention the whole rea…

> Anyone can spend 2min googling "wrongful convictions" and the number of people found innocent by the judicial process to see why.

This is just as good an argument against any form of law enforcement though. Don't imprison people because you will undoubtedly also target innocent people. Mind you, I'm not pro capital punishment, but "don't do it, because you will also hit innocent people" isn't a good argument against it.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#46

Post by ramon »

coldtea wrote: post #35
ramon wrote: post #29

Why is the Brazilian police officer wrong when he kills someone and why is any other officer in any other country right when he does the same? Mistakes happen it's part of this duty of being the police. It's a matter of solving the issues it's the most important thing. I was thinking about the other day since the police is so involved why not start investigating the police and what they own so you can understand wher…

> Why is the Brazilian police officer wrong when he kills someone and why is any other officer in any other country right when he does the same? Who said that? They are wrong in many cases, whether the country. > Mistakes happen it's part of this duty of being the police. Killing urban poor indiscriminately whenever crime is suspected (or even widely overusing open fire even when crime is actually committed), are not…

This is what I'm saying why is Brazil bad in this regard? How is any other place better? I think it's just people wanting to talk bad about something they don't know. Statistics is nothing if you are not living it, statistics can be hidden too, look at how many donators vs organ transplants in China.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#47

Post by saalweachter »

edpichler wrote: post #25

"... Rio de Janeiro police killed 434 citizens." All of them were innocents? Why do some journalists insist to call criminals as victims, citizens, and etc?

For comparison, US police have killed 323 people so far in 2019[1], and the US is widely regarded as the shootiest, killiest first-world country.

Illinois, which has twice the population of Rio and contains the notorious crime-ridden hellhole known as Chicago, has had 5 police shootings in 2019.

Assuming a similar trend over the full course of a year (that number is for 3 months), that gives Rio a murder rate by the police of 27.5 per 100k; that is higher than the murder rate by criminals in Newark, NJ.

In short, that is just an insane number of people being summarily executed on the street without charges or trial by the police.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police...

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#48

Post by diego_moita »

brutally-honest wrote: post #26

Just posting this here in reply to a comment whose thread was flagged. Context is "whose definition of criminal should we use". How about "people openly flaunting assault weapons"? As someone who lived in Rio most of their life, I think that's a good line to draw. Opinions filled with "human rights" concerns from people far removed are probably ethically and morally correct, which is... cute. We're fighting an Urban…

In the movie Platoon they say: "The first casualty of war is innocence".

I can understand that. In despair, a lot of people in my Brazilian family think like you. But the problem is that this mentality opens a wide space for a whole different class of criminals. And that's what is going on in Rio : small business owners decided to bribe police officers in exchange of security. These corrupt policemen wiped away ordinary criminals but then they just replaced those, became organized crime by themselves, practicing drug traffic, extortion, monopolies in natural gas distribution and all sorts of illegal activities. In Rio they're called militias.

In the end, there's no alternative to the rule of the law. In the long run, a lynch mob mentality will only create bigger problems on the long run.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#49

Post by ufo »

victords wrote: post #28
hazdiego wrote: post #11

Ironically, Rio de Janeiro is considered one of the safest capitals in Brazil [1]. The absolute numbers are high, but that's a huge city with millions of habitants. I lived there for 27 years in favelas like Rocinha and Santa Marta (when I didn't have money), and in apartments in Botafogo and Flamengo (after making money). I walked on the streets midnight and later. Nothing has ever happened to me. I've never even wi…

What is the actual source for those numbers? Rio is not one of the safest capitals in a very long time. This article seems to be not only old, but very far from the actual numbers. https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_unidades_federativas_...

The media coverage of Rio de Janeiro's violence is a bit inconsistent. For example, if you go by the numbers the capitals in northeastern Brazil are more violent than Rio but Rio still gets much more media coverage.

That said, The crime and violence situation is still pretty bad, specially if you compare to first world standards. In certain parts of the city, residents live at the mercy of drug trafickers or paramilitary groups of currupt police officers (milicias). Even in the relatively safe Zona Sul, where the well-off people live, most have been directly or indirectly affected by violence.

For example, here is a non-exhaustive list of personal anecdotes:

- My grandmother's sister was murdered back in the 90s, when her house was robbed.

- One time my parents were stuck in a traffic jam for hours, They later found that the source of the problem was a shootout between drug trafickers and the police, which blocked a major traffic artery of the city. People had to get out of their cars and lie down to avoid getting shot.

- A friend of mine works at the federal university. One they they came to work and there was a bullet hole in one of the walls.

Re: Rio de Janeiro’s police killed a record number of people in three months

#50

Post by raincom »

hazdiego wrote: post #44
hazdiego wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine was a Macbook too. It was stolen on that security part where you have to put your personal belongs on the "running machine" (no idea how to call that) and pass through the scanner. The woman that passed before me took my laptop. I thought it was by mistake, but the cameras proved otherwise. Surprisingly or not, nobody cared. I was already hopeless in the airplane (which was late because of it) when this police o…

By the way, would anyone be interested in reading this story? I have the camera recordings with me.

Yes, please.
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