Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

headcrashing.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 526 posts

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#371

Post by DonHopkins »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #359
hodgesrm wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time for another sortie by the COBOL evangelism task force. Java has been the new COBOL since its inception in the 1990s. I programmed quite a bit in COBOL early in my career. It's an extremely efficient language for scanning records especially in an era when a large proportion of data was stored offline on mag tape. Most common business problems of the era could be expressed and solved effectively in COBOL, which is…

How does one secure a COBOL gig today, and is the supply:demand ratio such to guarantee excellent compensation and working conditions?

Be patient, and talk to your local Alcor representative.

https://medium.com/@donhopkins/cobol-forever-1a49f7d28a39

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#372

Post by zmmmmm »

dtech wrote: post #78

> And the idea that corporate developers or even frankly any developers are switching to LLVM and WebAssembly en masse is pretty ridiculous. There is only 1 popular language released since 2009 that targets JVM: Kotlin. All other target JS, their own bytecode or LLVM: Go, Rust, Dart, Elixer, Julia, Typescript, Swift. This is a significant difference from 2003-2009 languages which all targeted JVM unless they were Mic…

> There is only 1 popular language released since 2009 that targets JVM

You are going to upset all the Clojure fans with that :-)

But what would be the point in more JVM languages? I feel like a big factor in that is just that every niche is well filled with mature languages now.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#373

Post by NullPrefix »

mamon wrote: post #280
bitL wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poland and Hungary have found a loophole allowing them to ignore EU rules and sanctions while still profiting from subsidies and market access AFAIK this was tit-for-tat: HU & PL closed/sold-off their industry in favor of WEU in exchange for subsidies. Removing these subsidies for any reason would violate the main economic agreement between them and EU. Mind you, there is no significant locally grown industry in th…

Adding to that: one of the fundamental EU rules was freedom to do bussiness anywhere in EU. That worked in favor of Western countries which had their corporations opening offices in Poland, and making huge profits here. After some time Poland found some niches for itself, e.g. Polish transportation companies dominate EU market in truck freight. What was the EU response to that? They recently passed change in labor la…

>They recently passed change in labor laws, that would make this business unprofitable.

Are you talking about those labor laws, which require truckers driving in Germany to be paid German minimum wage? Totally unprofitable.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#374

Post by le-mark »

tootie wrote: post #320
Illniyar wrote: post #2

Well, mmm, good riddance? I suppose this will cause a lot of hardships to a lot of people who need to maintain JavaEE, but the fact that Java EE is no more is nothing but good. It is a nightmare case of overengineering.

Any organization that bought into JEE is probably willing to pay Oracle's license fees. That being said, I've literally never seen an org that preferred JEE to Spring and that includes numerous massive enterprises.

Spring is built on the good parts of JEE; servlet api, jdbc, etc.. so it's not immune to churn in this area.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#375

Post by NullPrefix »

mamon wrote: post #310
orf wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have that the labor laws are a response to polish domination of freight, or that those laws would would somehow only cause polish carriers to become unprofitable?

It was explicitly stated by French president Macron, that the goal is to end Polish dominance in truck freight :) Basically the law change is this: Now, if you are Polish truck driver employed in Poland, you are subject to Polish tax and labor codes, including things like tax rate, minimum wage, etc. What France wants (and what was passed, but is not in effect yet) is that if said truck driver crosses the border of a…

Main frothing at the mouth was because of requirement to pay local minimum wage for the time employee worked in that country.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#376

Post by sangnoir »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #355
marcus_holmes wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that attitude before. C++ developers working in finance around 2000. They were damn sure that no-one was going to switch to any other language because reasons. I'm sure there's still a bunch of C++ devs working in finance, and making decent money, but I think the industry has moved on now. The industry always moves on

HFT gigs I’ve looked at were all C++, some even Rust now - because they don’t want the risk of a long GC pause messing up a trade (which means Java, .NET, and Go are right-out).

You are right, but HFT is a tiny subset (headcount-wise) of the Financial industry.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#377

Post by dilyevsky »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #355
marcus_holmes wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that attitude before. C++ developers working in finance around 2000. They were damn sure that no-one was going to switch to any other language because reasons. I'm sure there's still a bunch of C++ devs working in finance, and making decent money, but I think the industry has moved on now. The industry always moves on

HFT gigs I’ve looked at were all C++, some even Rust now - because they don’t want the risk of a long GC pause messing up a trade (which means Java, .NET, and Go are right-out).

Go uses tri-color mark-and-sweep gc that runs concurrently and its latency is extremely short compared to .net and java (probably still not short enough to be put in the critical path of hft order processor tho).

Edit: I'm also confident you can ensure Go’s gc doesn’t run when you don’t want it to so there’s that.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#378

Post by sangnoir »

pjmlp wrote: post #94
19870213 wrote: post #53

I propose to mimic the intended move of the Indonesian government to move the capitol from Java to Borneo by forking OpenJDK/Java to OpenBDK/Borneo. If Oracle wants to keep the Java(tm) trademark, they can keep it.

Are you going to replace the 99% OpenJDK developers that are on Oracle's paycheck as well?

Yes. The Java ecosystem is far larger than Oracle. Java can absolutely thrive if Oracle were to cease to exist tomorrow, or if everyone else[1] decides to move to a fork.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19827875

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#379

Post by philliphaydon »

cutler wrote: post #364
cesarb wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a lot of similarities between the languages and it will be easy for any Java developer to pick up. Could you recommend good tutorials/manuals for developers with Java experience to learn C# (preferably without having to install Windows)?

If you're looking to get into C# 8.0 you're out of luck if using OS X. Visual Studio 2019 for Mac offers .Net Core 3.0 as an option if you have it installed but Mono hasn't caught up with C# 8.0 so isn't available. So much for cross-platform development - it seems OS X is still an afterthought.

What would you need mono for? If you’re using .net core...

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#380

Post by thaumasiotes »

IshKebab wrote: post #331
badpun wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s that a loophole? That’s literally how unanimous works, if EU wanted to be ruled by majority, they should have decided on that instead.

That's the point - unanimous voting is open to abuse from tiny minorities.

Eh, I wouldn't so much call it "abuse". Coming to consensus takes work. At a large enough scale, it won't ever happen, and the EU is much larger than that -- it's never going to meet any unanimity requirements.

Not sure what they were thinking with such a policy. Unanimity is something you can have at the village level.

Post reply on HN