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Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

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Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#131

Post by dmitriid »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #126
dmitriid wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your team is doing a shitty job, to be completely honest. This comment and all the comments beliw it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19809168

LOL rather than applaud some modicum of privacy we may be getting back, you decide to denigrate. Should we all hold this cynical attitude and hope for no progress at all?

We should all hold companies accountable and not celebrate every “modicum of privacy”.

Look at what companies do, not what they say they do.

Yay, you can delete all your data... says the company which puts hidden microphones in consumer products, leaks copious amounts of user data across unrelated services, releases a browser which automatically logs you in to google services, lifted its ban on personally identifiable info in its ad service etc. etc.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#133

Post by scarface74 »

hcnews wrote: post #48
aiiane wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but a decent chunk of my day job is making sure that it's true.

To be fair, companies do say things which they don't do or takes years to do it in the way that was advertised. Asking for a third-party auditor isn't unexpected or unwelcome in most cases. I had a similar concern where I was unsure if Google deleted my data and then anonymized it for helping their models anyways. In my opinion, that would be materially different than deleting all of it.

I've beat up on Google a fair amount. But, companies can get in so much trouble for outright not telling the truth, I don't believe it would be worth it for them to do so. The only big tech company that has a history of outright lying and being provably shady is Facebook.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#134

Post by idlewords »

dragonwriter wrote: post #127
idlewords wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario means you have to sue Google and win, as well as prove damages. That has historically just not worked. When Snapchat was shown to be collecting location data after explicitly promising not to, for example, they just got a slap on the wrist. I'm taking about a system that would let companies voluntarily increase their legal exposure to specific claims as a proof of commitment. That would allow companies…

> Your scenario means you have to sue Google and win, as well as prove damages. That has historically just not worked. So does a proposal about a special ceremony which makes the claim binding; you still have to take action when they break it, and prove that they did. > I'm taking about a system that would let companies voluntarily increase their legal exposure to specific claims as a proof of commitment. Increased e…

You have a regulatory body to provide outside auditing, high monetary penalties for violations through neglect, and if the violations are intentional, somebody goes to the pokey. Kind of a codified and structured version of what the FTC does now, except with real teeth and without the problems the FTC faces in enforcement.

If you don't like that approach, there are other ways to make the idea work (or, since this is HN, "well actually" it into a fine powder).

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#135

Post by ArlenBales »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #21
aiiane wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you choose to delete it, it will be deleted. (It takes nontrivial amounts of time to delete it across distributed service architecture but the deletions do get propagated.)

I simply do not believe this. Unless they're audited by a source that can be trusted and have the findings made public, I will not believe it either.

I've never seen audit reports from a trusted source of personal data being confirmed deleted for Apple, Amazon, etc. So I'm not sure what makes Google unique.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#136

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

idlewords wrote: post #112
dragonwriter wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One nice form of regulation would be a mechanism to let companies in this situation make a formal and binding privacy claim, that would then expose them to painful consequences if shown to be untrue. Or you could just make making false representations to get anything of value from people a tort generally , and in egregious cases a crime as well, rather than making it a privacy-specific regulation, and without makin…

Your scenario means you have to sue Google and win, as well as prove damages. That has historically just not worked. When Snapchat was shown to be collecting location data after explicitly promising not to, for example, they just got a slap on the wrist. I'm taking about a system that would let companies voluntarily increase their legal exposure to specific claims as a proof of commitment. That would allow companies…

> Your scenario means you have to sue Google and win, as well as prove damages.

I understood the proposal to be making corporate lying illegal, such that proving damages but not be necessary.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#137

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

aiiane wrote: post #14
duxup wrote: post #8

So does this actually delete it ... for Google? Deleting it from say my browser, maps, or other history is one thing. Does Google no longer have any of it? Also the top and bottom bars that leave me with like 1/3 usable space on google's blog is really frustrating to read on: https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/automatically...

Yes, if you choose to delete it, it will be deleted. (It takes nontrivial amounts of time to delete it across distributed service architecture but the deletions do get propagated.)

What about old backups (e.g. tape archives, which I think I've read Google uses), how do those get deleted? Do you store and encrypt the data with a user-specific key and then delete that key upon receiving a deletion request? Perhaps user data is never stored as part of tape backups? Perhaps you have a system which (very slowly) is able to load the appropriate tapes and purge the user's data?

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#138

Post by scarface74 »

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #102
shereadsthenews wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked on wipeout compliance at Google and IMHO there's no possibility that an outside auditor would ever be able to understand those systems to such an extent that they would discover a flaw in them that wasn't previously known to the many engineers who work full-time on wipeout. The systems are just too complex. One does not simply `find -type f /google` to figure out what data is available.

Part of the point of the audit would be to demonstrate that you take it as seriously as you say you do. Not so much to check the fine details.

In other words, it would be the same type of theater that most companies engage in. I know plenty of companies with "strict security standards" administered by the infrastructure department so they can pass an audit or some other type of security compliance. But most security breaches happen because of badly written software that the "compliance department" never reviews and they wouldn't know what to look for if they did.

Developers could have:

  sql = "Select * from Foo Where FirstName = '" + firstname + "'";
All over their code and no one in "compliance" would be any the wiser.

Re: Google Will Soon Let Users Automatically Scrub Location and Web History

#139

Post by Sheep_McSheepy »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #109

But only if you have a google account. If you don't have a google account, there's no way to request your shadow profile get scrubbed. As usual.

If you don't have google account then your data is stripped from all PII making identification virtually impossible. How do you want to instruct Google to delete your data if it cannot tell what's your data?
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