Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#231

Post by base698 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

newsoul2019 wrote: post #209

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

I was close to buying a used Tesla from Tesla, but this is making me pause. Am I being unreasonable? I live in the Bay Area where I feel like the only person without a Tesla or two.

I bought a Model S last year and around the time of weedgate I decided the risk was too great and sold the car. It seems from the used market that the value has plummeted. The one I bought is easy $40k less just a year old.

Repairs and parts availability is one of the biggest risks. Could easily see situations where a small fender bender causes a total loss.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#232

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:28 AM UTC

gwright wrote: post #76

jwr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course ICEs get subsidies. The subsidy is in the form of a carbon tax that we do not collect, even though we should. Every ICE produces emissions which will soon make most of our planet uninhabitable. There should be a carbon tax, so that we can offset this destruction: by building nuclear plants, or figuring out how to re-capture the carbon emitted into the atmosphere. And yet we do not collect that tax, hence he…

You have a point about the negative externalities, but insisting on using the word "subsidy" for that concept is just going to confuse people. That isn't the accepted meaning of "subsidy", in casual conversation at least.

It gets far worse when you consider the total cost of wars to protect the flow of oil.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#233

Post by twblalock » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:28 AM UTC

BMW, Audi, GM, Jaguar, and other automakers I forgot to mention are surely grateful to Tesla for proving the concept that a market exists for electric cars.

These established brands are going to bring a significant amount of competition for Tesla over the next few years. They know how to make cars at massive scale, and they know how to make money doing it.

Tesla is a very impressive success story, but all of its troubles so far have occurred in the absence of strong competition. The next few years will be far more difficult. I hope Tesla succeeds, but I'm glad I'm not a shareholder right now.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#234

Post by mdorazio » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

kylecordes wrote: post #188

azinman2 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really agree with the idea that Tesla’s are so far ahead of everyone else. Having just road in a model 3, so much of it felt really cheap. From the way you need two hands effectively to open the door from the outside, the flimsy plastic compartment in the center console that you have to “gently” close otherwise it bounces open, watching the autonomous car visualization merge and split apart cars that in reali…

For reasons not clear to me, "ride in" just doesn't work as well as "drive every day for a while". From the latter point of view: one hand is plenty for the doors, the plastic thing in the middle irritates you the first dozen times then it's fine, and the single screen is a large win. The screen doesn't "test drive" well, but for daily use many find it highly preferable. Still, to get more wide adoption they should f…

Just as an anecdotal counterpoint, I drove one for a week and my opinion of it didn't change. It continued to feel cheap to the point where I thought I would break things, the center screen did not become nice to use in comparison to the Model S split screen/gauges setup, the door handles were continuously annoying, and also the seat was never comfortable regardless of how much time I spent adjusting it (why the hell didn't they buy them from Recaro instead of building them in-house??). It does drive well in terms of general performance, responsiveness, and handling in comparison to other cars in the price class, though.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#235

Post by koolba » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #230

koolba wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that will happen. The paradigm shift for a “smart” car vs just a car is nothing like a flip phone vs a smart phone. Besides being able to drive you home when you’re drunk, what can you smart car do for you that you couldn’t already do with a regular car? Cruise for parking? These are just minor conveniences and for large swathes of the population, they’re likely not welcome either.

> No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i... I think you're significantly underestimating the impact it would have.

Yes and you can recreate Dropbox with SSH, rsync, and cron. We’ve all read these played out comments over and over...

So what game changing functionality do you think smart cars provide?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#236

Post by olivermarks » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

hi5eyes wrote: post #211

olivermarks wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite possible something similar to the Fisker bankruptcy might happen - Fisker's assets were bought out by Wanxiang Group who then launched Karma Automotive, resuming manufacture of their 'Revero' plug-in hybrid car, which is an improved version of the old Fisker Karma.

didnt fisker just announce partnership with rimac and pinifirina

yes fisker retained the name but not the karma

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#237

Post by semi-extrinsic » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:30 AM UTC

YjSe2GMQ wrote: post #224

Spooky23 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would only lease a Tesla. Why be stuck holding the bag if the proverbial shit hits the fan?

What's the potential problem for a consumer? No battery replacements? Someone's gotta be making parts even if Tesla goes bust.

Unlike other car manufacturers who go bust (like Saab 7 years ago), Tesla has worked hard to limit third-parties from repairing their cars. So if they go bust, you have to hope that their service business gets spun out into a company that lives on, and that this company (which retains a monopoly) doesn't charge you ridiculous rates.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#238

Post by electriclove » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:31 AM UTC

reitzensteinm wrote: post #136

mwfunk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally when people are down on Tesla or Elon Musk, it's because they want them to succeed at displacing internal combustion engines. They're not rooting for internal combustion engines, they're rooting for electric cars and annoyed when the company (or Musk) flounders from self-inflicted damage. At least, that seems like most of the criticism here. No one is going to respond well to an advocate of a technology the…

This is exactly right. I'm bearish on Tesla, and frequently criticise it. But I only care because I was an unashamed fanboy earlier in life. Musk kept flipping the coin to bet the company, and succeeded against all odds. It was riveting to watch. But once Tesla got large... nothing changed. He's still flipping. Model 3? Flip. Automated factory? Flip. Autonomous driving? Flip. 420? Flip. Solar City? Flip. Tesla is a s…

I agree with a lot of what you've said here but I don't think anyone is legitimately catching up. There are all kinds of announcements but no one else really building EVs in the US in volume: https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-s...

We are getting close though but need Tesla to keep the pressure on for a couple more years.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#239

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:31 AM UTC

sliken wrote: post #171

slg wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any Audi, Porsche, or BMW on the horizon that will be close to competing on price with the Model 3? They all seem to be targeting the Model S/X market and Tesla's results seem to be showing that market is shrinking.

I agree, but from what I can tell the Audi, Porsche, and BMW are targeting where the model S was... not where it is today. I.e. range in the 200-260 miles, not 370. Seems likely by the time any of the competition is shipping in reasonable numbers (already hearing complaints of limited battery supply from the German companies) there's likely to be a model S with the improve battery pack based on the same tech as the m…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#240

Post by dragontamer » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 4:32 AM UTC

sliken wrote: post #155

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

I find the Panasonic thing very weird. Tesla claims to be battery limited, and also mentioned that their popular and in demand power walls are being throttled by lack of batteries. Does make me wonder. Is Panasonic blackmailing Tesla with limited supply to influence Tesla's battery supply in China? Is Panasonic and/or Tesla lying about the situation?

> Panasonic blackmailing Tesla

Its way simpler than that.

https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2019/02/en19022...

Yoshio Ito was a well known pro-Tesla executive, and was in charge of the Panasonic automotive division until March 31st (EDIT: Typo). His replacement is neutral-Tesla at best (based on the actions of the new Panasonic director)

Mr. Ito was the original Panasonic executive who signed the Tesla deal for the Gigafactory in Nevada. Mr. Ito's departure from Panasonic is a big deal in the Tesla-Panasonic relationship. In effect: the Panasonic executive in charge of the Gigafactory has retired, so things will be dramatically different as his replacement tries to make his mark on the company.