Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#181

Post by kylecordes » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #157

agumonkey wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what Tesla can do to be a more solid company, care to give hints ?

Give up on self driving cars for one thing.

No need to give up. Just acknowledge that is a hard problem whose success date is notably indeterminate. Then stubbornly refuse to talk about future features and only talk about one's already shipping today. If the future is going to arrive so soon, why bother to break in advance? Let everyone be amazed when it does arrive.

I love the autopilot feature, but the cars are still great without it. Tesla can be very successful and sell a lot of cars without any more self driving features.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#182

Post by krapp » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

goshx wrote: post #170

krapp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect the engineers and workers actually doing the revolutionizing, not the man taking all the credit and the money.

I definitely respect them too, but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious?

>but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious?

It would be just as correct to say that Elon Musk's vision wouldn't go anywhere without his employees' vision and talents, many of which likely exceed his own in terms of technical or intellectual skill.

Obviously, he has his place, and credit where credit is due, but I think we've gotten a bit too obsessed with the cult of personality and "great man" model of thinking that creeps into history, business and science.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#183

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

kylecordes wrote: post #176

S_A_P wrote: post #14

As someone who does not have any stake in Tesla, I dont see a path forward for them without a company with the bank account on the scale of Apple/Google/Amazon funding them. Bootstrapping software is hard, hardware is harder, cars are 10x harder than those squared...

Tesla as a part of Apple (whose cash stuck between mattress cushions far exceeds the market cap of Tesla) would be unstoppable. Also, a Tesla car is an iPhone in a world of flip phones. The Tesla design ethos fits Apple pretty nicely.

I don’t really agree with the idea that Tesla’s are so far ahead of everyone else. Having just road in a model 3, so much of it felt really cheap. From the way you need two hands effectively to open the door from the outside, the flimsy plastic compartment in the center console that you have to “gently” close otherwise it bounces open, watching the autonomous car visualization merge and split apart cars that in reality hadn’t changed lane positions (deeply worrying), to the single point of failure touch screen eliminating any other part (for cost savings), I don’t see what the big deal is (except for their range/price, which is far better than everyone else). I hear the model S and X are better, but at their price point there are many other really nice options as well.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#184

Post by kylecordes » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #107

toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame people condemn Tesla’s for its troubles when internal combustion gets a ridiculous amount of subsided despite it causing irreparable harm to the planet. Musk plays on Boss Mode (along with others) while everyone enjoys bread and circus and laughs at people trying to accelerate progress with regards to climate change. I hope those quarterly profits, trucks, and SUVs are worth it when climate change hits i…

Tesla is one way to reduce carbon emissions from automobiles. It is not the only way. There is also: * Battery-electric vehicles manufactured by other companies * Plugin hybrid-electric vehicles manufactured by other companies * Reducing automobile usage in general * Developing energy-efficient processes to synthesize carbon-neutral liquid fuels using carbon-neutral energy sources * Developing new and more efficient…

Tesla is actually working against the "reduce" in the short term. Facebook groups of Tesla owners frequently include words along the lines of: I like this car so much that I drive much more than I used to. Oops.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#185

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

canada_dry wrote: post #128

bduerst wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volkswagen tried but Musk shot specifically shot it down on hubris, despite VW's cash and manufacturing capacity being the solution to Tesla's problems at the time. https://www.wsj.com/articles/public-bravado-private-doubts-h...

> Musk specifically shot it down on hubris This, of course, will ultimately catch up with Musk, just like it did for Jobs. Elon success relies on the same 'distortion reality' shield that Jobs relied on. It forces his staff to keep trying to achieve his practically impossible demands. Continued success requires that it keep working over and over while not burning out critical staff and burning through your investor's…

Don’t forget luck / timing.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#186

Post by goshx » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #182

goshx wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely respect them too, but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious?

>but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious? It would be just as correct to say that Elon Musk's vision wouldn't go anywhere without his employees' vision and talents, many of which likely exceed his own in terms of technical or intellectual skill. Obviously, he has his place, and credit where credit is due, but I think we've gotten a bit too obs…

But he made it happen (commented before you edited yours).

People are hating on Tesla because they don’t like Elon. A company that will literally benefit everyone, directly or indirectly.

It’s a human flaw, it seems.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#187

Post by krapp » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:40 AM UTC

goshx wrote: post #186

krapp wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but they would not do anything of this magnitude if it wasn’t for Elon’s vision and leadership. Isn’t that obvious? It would be just as correct to say that Elon Musk's vision wouldn't go anywhere without his employees' vision and talents, many of which likely exceed his own in terms of technical or intellectual skill. Obviously, he has his place, and credit where credit is due, but I think we've gotten a bit too obs…

But he made it happen (commented before you edited yours). People are hating on Tesla because they don’t like Elon. A company that will literally benefit everyone, directly or indirectly. It’s a human flaw, it seems.

No, he paid people to make it happen, who made it happen. He doesn't deserve more credit than his employees.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#188

Post by kylecordes » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #183

kylecordes wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla as a part of Apple (whose cash stuck between mattress cushions far exceeds the market cap of Tesla) would be unstoppable. Also, a Tesla car is an iPhone in a world of flip phones. The Tesla design ethos fits Apple pretty nicely.

I don’t really agree with the idea that Tesla’s are so far ahead of everyone else. Having just road in a model 3, so much of it felt really cheap. From the way you need two hands effectively to open the door from the outside, the flimsy plastic compartment in the center console that you have to “gently” close otherwise it bounces open, watching the autonomous car visualization merge and split apart cars that in reali…

For reasons not clear to me, "ride in" just doesn't work as well as "drive every day for a while". From the latter point of view: one hand is plenty for the doors, the plastic thing in the middle irritates you the first dozen times then it's fine, and the single screen is a large win. The screen doesn't "test drive" well, but for daily use many find it highly preferable.

Still, to get more wide adoption they should fix the irritations for the next iteration. There is no reason for either electricity or self driving to imply doors that are tricky to open or a strange center console closure. Fixing those distractions would make it easier to sell more.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#189

Post by goshx » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #187

goshx wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he made it happen (commented before you edited yours). People are hating on Tesla because they don’t like Elon. A company that will literally benefit everyone, directly or indirectly. It’s a human flaw, it seems.

No, he paid people to make it happen, who made it happen. He doesn't deserve more credit than his employees.

Nobody is saying he deserves more than the employees. You brought them to the conversation. He deserves a lot of credit, that’s all.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#190

Post by golfer » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 2:48 AM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #177

golfer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has about $9B in debt. They are not an attractive takeover candidate. They've never turned an annual profit.

Apply bankruptcy and sell the assets for cheap... Id imagine many would want to pick up the remains...

Specifically what remains?

They are basically the only OEM pushing self driving without lidar.

Their manufacturing facilities are childish compared to other large automakers.

Solar City, powerwall, and the solar roof are huge money losers and barely make a dent in the P&L statement.

Maybe just the brand name? But will the brand have the cache once it suffers bankruptcy? Maybe it will.