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Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#221

Post by mdorazio »

RivieraKid wrote: post #54
nostrademons wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that Tesla was supposed to bankroll SpaceX, but SpaceX is killing it on profits and Tesla is floundering. If anything it looks like SpaceX will end up bankrolling Tesla. Musk should forget about trying to save this planet and focus on getting to the red one.

You mean Musk selling his share and putting it into SpaceX? SpaceX laid off 10% this year and their recent attempt to raise money didn't go well.

To be fair, they tried to raise money mostly to fund BFR development, which is a questionable economic investment for people expecting a decent ROI (although it's a fantastic overall future investment for humanity as a whole). If they tried to raise money specifically for micro satellite internet, on the other hand, I think investors would be more favorable.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#222

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #203
golfer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has about $9B in debt. They are not an attractive takeover candidate. They've never turned an annual profit.

Neither did Amazon for many years. They are scaling up.

Tesla has no network effects as a marketplace and doesn't drive competitors out of the market. Both things Amazon traded their profits in for.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#223

Post by koolba »

bobsil1 wrote: post #219
phkahler wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of software in cars, but cars are not software. Making cars is a lot harder from a business perspective than doing AI. In the end software is just a file that gets loaded into a module - one step in a very long chain.

Manufacturing is well-understood, self-driving is research. Dumb cars = flip phones shortly.

I doubt that will happen. The paradigm shift for a “smart” car vs just a car is nothing like a flip phone vs a smart phone.

Besides being able to drive you home when you’re drunk, what can you smart car do for you that you couldn’t already do with a regular car? Cruise for parking? These are just minor conveniences and for large swathes of the population, they’re likely not welcome either.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#224

Post by YjSe2GMQ »

Spooky23 wrote: post #217
newsoul2019 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was close to buying a used Tesla from Tesla, but this is making me pause. Am I being unreasonable? I live in the Bay Area where I feel like the only person without a Tesla or two.

I would only lease a Tesla. Why be stuck holding the bag if the proverbial shit hits the fan?

What's the potential problem for a consumer? No battery replacements? Someone's gotta be making parts even if Tesla goes bust.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#225

Post by dwighttk »

cameldrv wrote: post #7

It was fairly obvious that this was going to happen when they announced their "Investor Autonomy Day" a couple of days before earnings. Get people thinking about the long term rather than this quarter.

If anyone with money believed a word of what Elon mumbled on Autonomy Day the stock would have moved up. (It didn’t)

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#226

Post by vinay427 »

agumonkey wrote: post #126
cmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pretty much every single person who owns a Model S/X would tell you that they're never going back to the old German crew. Tesla enjoys the strongest brand loyalty of any car manufacturer. Apple-like loyalty. Tesla doesn't feel like a toy, it feels like the future. They're years ahead of everybody else in terms of tech that is usable today.

Conflicting reports about car brands .. I see people saying Tesla lack a lot of quality compared to German cars. Some youtube car guys like scotty kilmer are saying german brands quality has gone to the toilet compared to early 90s. Lots of over engineered electronics, a lot more cheap materials for parts (except for the actual traction subsystem).

They're not conflicting because they refer to different senses of quality, in my estimation. Tesla's models can be said to lack in quality by design (materials, luxury features) compared to German and especially Japanese cars at a similar price point. The German cars generally lack in quality in terms of longevity and robustness, statistically and anecdotally.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#227

Post by mdorazio »

agumonkey wrote: post #112
bduerst wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Making Tesla criticism about criticizing alternative energy is a false equivocation. There are strong arguments that Tesla is being ran very poorly by Musk (solar city acq, VW cash denied, SEC fines, etc.) despite the company being one of the champions for electric vehicles.

I fail to see what Tesla can do to be a more solid company, care to give hints ?

Short list...

1) Stop making ridiculous promises about self-driving capabilities.

2) Stop giving out timelines that everyone knows aren't going to be hit for every single model.

3) Get production quality under control. Seriously, a stupid percentage of Model 3s are getting handed to customers with defects that would keep them from even making it out of the factory at any other OEM.

4) Get aftermarket logistics figured out so people aren't waiting months for their cars to get repaired.

5) Stop flip-flopping on sales models. Is Tesla selling via brick and mortar stores or not? Is it using low pressure guidance-oriented sales or calling up customers with pre-orders trying to pressure them into upgrading to a more expensive configuration? Is their pricing fixed or going to drop another $1,000 next month?

6) Stop treating employees like churnable garbage. I work in the auto industry and the number of ex-Tesla employees floating around who got burned out or sick of political bullshit in record time is astounding in comparison to every other OEM.

7) Stop treating driver safety as a suggestion. I mean that in the broad sense, not in the mechanical engineering sense. Ex. autopilot should never have been released in any capacity that allowed drivers to take a nap or read a book while the car happily plowed into a semi-truck or median.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#228

Post by gonehome »

newsoul2019 wrote: post #209
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

I was close to buying a used Tesla from Tesla, but this is making me pause. Am I being unreasonable? I live in the Bay Area where I feel like the only person without a Tesla or two.

People have been predicting failure for Tesla since the beginning.

At each stage saying they’d fail and not be able to execute. Every time so far they’ve been wrong.

I like my model 3 a lot so I’d recommend one - I don’t think the people speculating on Tesla are particularly good at it.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#229

Post by rjdagost »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #81

Tesla's 1.5B reduction of cash on hand was largely due to the 920M convertible bond payment — but that only happened because TSLA didn't perform to the level necessary for conversion (~$360 IIRC). I wonder what changes in terms this'll warrant for future capital raises. Then they mention that they missed a lot of revenue due to missing half their shipments overseas, and onto Q2 (But also expecting a loss in Q2). Sale…

This wasn't reported much, but Tesla also expanded their ABL (Asset Based Lending) credit agreement by $500M in March 2019: https://ir.tesla.com/node/19561/html

Without that, they would have $500M less cash on hand. They shipped half of their cars in the final 10 days of Q1. Finances must have been pretty tight at the start of March. That was around the time they announced they are closing all stores, firing sales personnel, and in general tightening the belt significantly. They also had the Model Y reveal in the middle of March, presumably to raise capital via deposits. Cutting prices multiple times towards the end of March must have helped to move a lot of metal, at the expense of gross margin.

Speaking of the Model Y, I also found it suspicious that on the conference call Elon Musk wouldn't divulge the number of deposits. When the Model 3 deposits were skyrocketing he talked about the reservation count frequently. I can only suspect that the number of Model Y deposits isn't so impressive.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#230

Post by jaggederest »

koolba wrote: post #223
bobsil1 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing is well-understood, self-driving is research. Dumb cars = flip phones shortly.

I doubt that will happen. The paradigm shift for a “smart” car vs just a car is nothing like a flip phone vs a smart phone. Besides being able to drive you home when you’re drunk, what can you smart car do for you that you couldn’t already do with a regular car? Cruise for parking? These are just minor conveniences and for large swathes of the population, they’re likely not welcome either.

> No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...

I think you're significantly underestimating the impact it would have.

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