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Amazon Quits China Market

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Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#301

Post by nomnomray »

parrellel wrote: post #205
chrischen wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that how the process works now? Go with whoever tends to be be a "tad more credible." Everyone has agendas, and you'll go nowhere comparing the relative strength of everyone's agendas. Simply stating something likely done by Alibaba, but not necessarily true not only adds nothing to the conversation, but detracts from the journey to the truth. If we accept his statement as is, then you may as well accept anything…

Not anything, but well, China's a corrupt totalitarian state that believes in information control and revisionism... and then there's also the element of performative solidarity in response to state actions (re: doping scandals, trade sanctions, Taiwan, etc). So, I'll sing praises to China when they do something praiseworthy, but by god I'm not trusting a statistic or a press brief coming out of that place, and no-on…

Looking at the world like that is like plugging your ears and yelling "I can't hear you" whenever something goes against your preconceived narrative.

For example, when China announces they have landed on the far side of the moon, how exactly does their totalitarian governance impact the accuracy of this press brief? Is it not more beneficial for your own sake to pass on judgment (or at least defer on your judgment) based on the particular event over what their goverment is like?

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#302

Post by BoorishBears »

michaelscott wrote: post #294
BoorishBears wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your of your comment is intentionally stripping things of context in a pathetic attempt disarm a fair argument without addressing the actual substance of it. Saying “kowtow”, “bruh”, “what’s good”. Not a problem. Someone who never says “bruh” or “what’s good” suddenly talking like they’re extras in a Migos music video to their black coworker is not cool. Saying kowtow, but only in reference to Asians and always u…

I don't have an issue with the base argument, I agree with it. I'm saying the examples are false equivalences because in the context of the original comment, they are. There's nothing in the original comment that indicates the use of the word "only in reference to Asians" because you have a sample size of 1 (again, I've personally heard it used in non-Asian contexts too). Making an assumption about the intent of some…

Point out which part of my comment is saying I’m talking about a single comment and not a general trend in the US.

This kind of useless deflection is insulting to basic intelligence.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#303

Post by parrellel »

nomnomray wrote: post #301
parrellel wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anything, but well, China's a corrupt totalitarian state that believes in information control and revisionism... and then there's also the element of performative solidarity in response to state actions (re: doping scandals, trade sanctions, Taiwan, etc). So, I'll sing praises to China when they do something praiseworthy, but by god I'm not trusting a statistic or a press brief coming out of that place, and no-on…

Looking at the world like that is like plugging your ears and yelling "I can't hear you" whenever something goes against your preconceived narrative. For example, when China announces they have landed on the far side of the moon, how exactly does their totalitarian governance impact the accuracy of this press brief? Is it not more beneficial for your own sake to pass on judgment (or at least defer on your judgment) b…

It isn't as if I'm ignoring what they put out. We're not in total jingoistic denial of reality territory here :)

Regarding China's moon landing, their being a totalitarian government with a propagandistic focus matters a great deal. A lot of bad science has been foisted upon the world by similar regimes - look up Lamarckian inheritance in the USSR for instance if you haven't heard of it.

In this case though, we've got pictures, we know the rocket launched, etc, etc.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#304

Post by michaelscott »

BoorishBears wrote: post #302
michaelscott wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an issue with the base argument, I agree with it. I'm saying the examples are false equivalences because in the context of the original comment, they are. There's nothing in the original comment that indicates the use of the word "only in reference to Asians" because you have a sample size of 1 (again, I've personally heard it used in non-Asian contexts too). Making an assumption about the intent of some…

Point out which part of my comment is saying I’m talking about a single comment and not a general trend in the US. This kind of useless deflection is insulting to basic intelligence.

I'm not sure if you've picked up the main point of what I'm saying or are just performing some deflection of your own, but it stands nevertheless: you've got a reasonable argument that I get behind, just make your argument without using misleading examples.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#305

Post by rossdavidh »

pesmhey wrote: post #204
rossdavidh wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't this been obvious for years? Like, centuries? No major power allows other nations, especially nations which are not close military allies, to dominate its economy. China acts in its own self-interest, as does...every other nation in the history of the planet which is able to. The U.K., the U.S., or any other major economic power, will not allow its economy to be dominated by companies from countries that it do…

Schneider Electric has a fairly large presence in the US...to what I can imagine is a huge benefit to both Europe and the US. Bosch, VW (let’s forget the scandal for a minute)... This goes beyond so much more than this particular article. The ‘western’ world is building a global civilization, and it seems like anyone is invited if you play by the rules. All of the China doves over the last 3 decades probably thought…

Well, there are certainly German companies operating in the US market, but: 1) Germany is a NATO ally, and the US has military bases in Germany, which is very different than the relations between China and the US 2) Germany does not have any possibility of dominating the US economy in the way that US companies could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese economy

South Korea, like Germany, has a military alliance with the US, and the US has military bases in South Korea. Again, there is also no real danger of South Korea dominating the US economy on the scale that the US could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese one.

Lastly, there are rules in the "global" economy, but those rules have mostly worked to the benefit of the countries that made them (see results in Latin America and Africa for what happens if you follow IMF and World Bank advice on opening up your economy). South Korea, Japan, and other "Asian tigers" mostly did NOT follow IMF/World Bank advice, and that's why it worked for them. China is basically doing the same thing Japan, South Korea, etc. did a couple decades ago.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't care, or even respond, but we shouldn't be surprised, or expect something different in the future.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#306

Post by notfromhere »

scarmig wrote: post #123
giggles_giggles wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Countries who can consume and produce within themselves are going to succeed more than those who primarily import / export Citation heavily needed for that claim.

Take the natural experiment of the Korean peninsula. Who would prefer to live in the (relatively) free-trading, cosmopolitan hellhole of South Korea when they could live in the utopian autarky of North Korea?

He wasn't arguing for autarky, but having an industrial base.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#307

Post by landryraccoon »

omilu wrote: post #284
landryraccoon wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you think this confidence buys the west. Like, is it actually beneficial to be overconfident? Let's say you're right and he's wrong. The consequence of overestimating China is slight. So, we were a little worried when we didn't have to be. On the other hand, the consequences for a nation or a business of underestimating China could be catastrophic. It could mean finding your business or nation sudden…

“Every minute I spent thinking about competitors was a minute wasted” -PG

That's talking about a startup. Europe and the United States aren't startups.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#308

Post by product50 »

bad_user wrote: post #239
paganel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world I've mentioned it in another comment, too, but Amazon is not present in my Eastern European country (Romania), where Alibaba beats them by a large margin (even though they're also not officially launched here). I've just done a quick search and it seems Amazon is not winning it in Russia either, nor in Ukraine, to say nothing of India. As such, to say that they…

I’m a Romanian. What do you mean Alibaba is beating Amazon in România? I’d say that’s hyperbole. Neither of them are present here and if I were to guess judging by my own experience, I’d say that Amazon is still more popular. Do you have hard numbers? Of course neither of them hold a candle to the local eMag, but that’s only natural.

I am not talking about literally every country in the world. But most countries that matter, in terms of the combination of their population and GDP, Amazon is there or nearly there in terms of being the top player in the market.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#309

Post by yhoneycomb »

ssnistfajen wrote: post #213
eledumb wrote: post #93

Amazon is being smart. They know the Chinese will steal every bit of IP/Technology they can, and then once they've extracted all the juice they'll create market conditions that make it impossible for the foreign company to remain successful. China has been running this program on everyone since they started with the Communist/Open market concept. It's just amazing that companies still haven't caught on. The lure of b…

Some people always have a myriad of excuses to cover up what appears to be simply a failure to stay competitive in a highly competitive market. Learn to read the article next time.

this guy has a clear anti-China bias

got into it with him on another post

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#310

Post by steelframe »

cheeze wrote: post #148
philsnow wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In amazonaws.cn there's no KMS and they only gave the ability to use virtual MFA devices at the end of 2017 [0] All of this is to say nothing of the additional restrictions imposed by the government -- I agree with contingencies that it's "not easy" to run a business in (AWS) China, but I think that at this point everybody who's seriously thinking about doing so knows what to expect. [0] https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/n…

They offer KMS literally every region except China. No point in running a security/encryption service in China when they're just going to steal the keys.

The tragedy here is that the government isn't the only adversary. Without encryption, users are being left exposed to black hats who can get at the backend storage, either through hacking or through failure to securely decommission physical storage media.
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