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Amazon Quits China Market

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Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#41

Post by baybal2 »

sytelus wrote: post #30
cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

Timing is surprising. Amazon's Chinese business has just managed to set up everything right and find its niche.

Amazon in China was getting big in second tier cities underserved by big ecommerce brands.

Serving second tier cities make a lot of sense today when competition in tier 1 cities requires more ad spending than in America or Europe

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#42

Post by OrgNet »

StopHammoTime wrote: post #17

Amazon's model has been a "central place for everything". Culturally, China seems to be more open to having ten million places to get their specific things they need. Having a central online store is not a big deal for them.

Do they have the equivalent to a shopping mall that allows them to easily find smaller online stores?

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#43

Post by JamesBarney »

PakG1 wrote: post #35
product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.

I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon?

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#44

Post by paganel »

sytelus wrote: post #30
cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

> why Alibaba etc aren’t bigger in US or Europe given their far more aggressive take on offering huge catelog at lower prices with ultrafast delivery.

Alibaba is pretty big here in Romania. One could say that that happens because Amazon isn't officially present on the market, which is true, but neither Alibaba is officially launched, people use it because the stuff on their website is really, really cheap and the cost vs what-you-get ratio is pretty reasonable. I also wonder how come Alibaba isn't bigger in some Western European markets.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#45

Post by paganel »

product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

> Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world

I've mentioned it in another comment, too, but Amazon is not present in my Eastern European country (Romania), where Alibaba beats them by a large margin (even though they're also not officially launched here). I've just done a quick search and it seems Amazon is not winning it in Russia either, nor in Ukraine, to say nothing of India. As such, to say that they are winning "everywhere else in the world" is not really true, they're only winning in North America and some Western European countries (too lazy to search what really happens in South America or Africa).

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#46

Post by pdimitar »

paganel wrote: post #44
sytelus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

> why Alibaba etc aren’t bigger in US or Europe given their far more aggressive take on offering huge catelog at lower prices with ultrafast delivery. Alibaba is pretty big here in Romania. One could say that that happens because Amazon isn't officially present on the market, which is true, but neither Alibaba is officially launched, people use it because the stuff on their website is really, really cheap and the cos…

As a Bulgarian, that's very surprising to read!

What is the average delivery in days when shopping from Alibaba? Do you get huge delivery fees akin to Amazon and eBay?

I'm pretty unhappy with Amazon and eBay for shopping in Bulgaria and I'm considering alternatives.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#47

Post by zzh8829 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #43
PakG1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.

I'm curious is this because jd.com is far ahead of American Amazon or because Chinese Amazon is far behind American Amazon?

Having lived in both China and US/Canada, I would say jd and taobao is far ahead of American Amazon. Some key differentiators include delivery speed, UI/UX, product offerings and the ability to chat with merchants instantly.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#48

Post by BoorishBears »

michaelscott wrote: post #38
BoorishBears wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people will know what it means if I say el . But it's like if I only say el when my Mexican friend is around. Just weird, and not necessary. Or since that example apparently goes over some of your heads, it’s like how some of you only use “bruh” and “yo” and “what’s good” around me, your black coworker and no one else.

All your examples are false equivalences. The word "kowtow" is a perfect description of a relatively complicated ritual that didn't already have an English word for it (you could maybe substitute "placate" or "show deference" but these can have other meanings in different contexts). Words from other languages like "karaoke", "restaurant" and "prima donna" have always been incorporated into English when no specific su…

All your of your comment is intentionally stripping things of context in a pathetic attempt disarm a fair argument without addressing the actual substance of it.

Saying “kowtow”, “bruh”, “what’s good”. Not a problem.

Someone who never says “bruh” or “what’s good” suddenly talking like they’re extras in a Migos music video to their black coworker is not cool.

Saying kowtow, but only in reference to Asians and always using “appease” in other contexts, is not cool.

Yeah I know HN is mostly white guys who squirm at the idea of race and think “I don’t see color” is an ok thing to say, but if you’re not going to at least try and take someone's arguments for full value, even if you don’t agree, don’t even respond, it’s insulting otherwise.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#49

Post by BoorishBears »

z2 wrote: post #39
BoorishBears wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people will know what it means if I say el . But it's like if I only say el when my Mexican friend is around. Just weird, and not necessary. Or since that example apparently goes over some of your heads, it’s like how some of you only use “bruh” and “yo” and “what’s good” around me, your black coworker and no one else.

Not sure why others seem to disagree, but kow-tow indeed conjures up fu manchu-esque images, a sort of comical or repugnant representation of groveling associated exclusively with Asian culture. Exactly as you say, it's not necessarily racist in intention of using the term as subservience, but racial nonetheless. Separately, the actual kau-tau seems to have meant something specific as a ritual of respect. Used here,…

Because this is the “I don’t see color” crowd and it makes them uncomfortable to talk about anything racial, so they’d rather bury your comments about it and not have to look.

As if to prove a point, both this comment and another were downvoted literally before the page finished refreshing after submission

There is no way someone could have read both in the time it took my page to refresh, but it’s not nice to acknowledge race exists for these people so that’s that...

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#50

Post by product50 »

PakG1 wrote: post #35
product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.

Well you don't know why they haven't been able to execute quickly. Maybe that approval they need to start a service wasn't given? Maybe the partnership they needed from the local delivery channel was delayed? Maybe the sellers were restricted to sell only on domestic companies?
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