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JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

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Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#151

Post by CaptainZapp »

skohan wrote: post #106
bayesian_horse wrote: post #101

I have to admit my naivety on this, but: What exactly is the problem here? Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane. They also have facial recognition data, either from a passport photo or putting a camera in front of the check-in, and arguably they have a right to that. People walk around with their faces all the time. They pos…

> I think we need to be more precise about what exactly is spooking us and why. What's spooking me is the normalization of facial recognition technology for identification without adequate public agreement over what the limits of its applications should be. A machine recognizing me is a lot different than a human recognizing me. If a machine can recognize me, there can be cameras posted at every street corner, and so…

Add to that that the convenience argument is pretty much bullshit. At least when you apply it to travels in the Schengen countries.

On such flights you essentially (can) check in remotely, receive the QR code via mail and essentially badge yourself into the plane all the way without ever showing ID.

I can't fathom that scanning my face is any faster than that.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#152

Post by kalleboo »

gambiting wrote: post #76
iamphilrae wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve just flown London to Aberdeen (UK) and back with no need for ID. You certainly can still do this internally. An exception may be if your terminal is mixed in with international flights, then you’ll be lumped in with them at security.

Well yes, because UK is a weird country in that you guys have no official ID system. People either use their driving licence or a passport, and neither is mandatory to have. Most other EU countries just issue everyone with an ID card so 100% of population is covered.

Inside of Schengen you don't need ID to fly unless your airline requires it (many LCCs do to prevent ticket reselling). I've flown SAS without ever showing ID - just scanning my eTicket barcode at security and the gate.

(You are required to carry ID when visiting another Schengen country, but it is not checked by airports like for extra-Schengen flights)

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#153

Post by raxxorrax »

arno_app wrote: post #55

That biometric data is stored by a government is a whole other discussion in my eyes. If they provide a secure API that just let's you query through facial data and return which passenger from the company provided list it is I'm fine as long as the biometric data gets destroyed afterwards (the one provided to the API). But of course how can I know this as a passenger. I like the idea to make a process less painful bu…

Just scrap identification and 100% of security legislation from the last 20 years and you could have a perfect and smooth flying experience.

----

Planes can make you and your whole family burn in a crash. So I guess that makes you cry really hard every time you board a plane, because that is really horrible.

It could also be attacked by terrorists, but that probability is even lower by a few magnitudes. But since you already cried a lot, you just had enough and had to implement a huge dragnet? This makes so much sense!

edit: I wish I could underline words on HN to underline the magnitude of magnitude.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#154

Post by kalleboo »

photonios wrote: post #91
skohan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe I routinely fly without being ID'd. I just present my mobile boarding pass to the scanner, and go through security. Anyone with my phone would be able to get on board. It's not 100% ID-free though: AFAIK they are permitted to check ID, and they do it randomly.

I am assuming you're flying within the schengen zone. Can I ask what countries you fly in? I fly frequently within the European Union and I am a EU citizen. However, even for flights between the Netherlands and Germany I have to enter my ID details during check-in and it's checked multiple times throughout the trip. It's not just random checks, but it seems mandatory. When you drop off the luggage they ask for your t…

Airlines may additionally request ID on their own, many do to prevent ticket reselling.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#155

Post by lm28469 »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #140
lm28469 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could fly with guns and smoke cigs in planes in the 50s-60s, that was true freedom, right ? Planes were hijacked all the time, and back then they weren't nearly as many planes as now. [0] > so much of what made air travel fun It's not supposed to be "fun", flying isn't a right, it's a privilege that enabled mass tourism which is an ecological and cultural plague. People take easyjet/ryanair like they take their c…

In what sense are they "hell" and how come you think free movement is a privilege - that sounds a bit elitist. Free movement is a right in the EU BTW

> In what sense are they "hell"

Deezer/Jump/OFO/Mobike/DonkeyRepublic bikes everywhere, now they even started using electric scooters, parking them in front of monuments, in the middle of the already small sidewalks, on the road (??!)

You can't go to museum/parks/monuments/local biergarten.

Public transports can't keep up. Even worst, roads can't keep up (uber + car2go + taxis everywhere)

Half of the flats in touristic areas are aribnbs, artificially increasing local prices + kicking local people out.

Artificially increases restaurants / bars prices.

I don't even get how tourists are having fun, it's literally like queuing in Disneyland to see/do the most basic things and take the same pictures as everyone else. I saw hundreds of people queueing for 2+ hours for a famous burger / kebab place, if that's what you consider "fun" and "freedom" ...

> how come you think free movement is a privilege

Never said that. Now that people can buy a ParisBerlin tickets for the price of a restaurant they go enjoy their mindless 3 days of paradise, wreak havoc on the locals, and move to their next destination. It's just like freedom of speech, when abused it starts to get nasty.

> When culture becomes nothing more than a commodity, it must also become the star commodity of the spectacular society. - Guy Debord

> Ideology, information and > culture < tend more and more to lose their content and become pure quantity. - Raoul Vaneigem

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#156

Post by JustSomeNobody »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #101

I have to admit my naivety on this, but: What exactly is the problem here? Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane. They also have facial recognition data, either from a passport photo or putting a camera in front of the check-in, and arguably they have a right to that. People walk around with their faces all the time. They pos…

> Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane.

Is facial recognition actually able to do this? Does matching images by a machine prove it is me?

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#157

Post by JustSomeNobody »

mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

Scaring the public is worth billions of dollars to businesses selling this crap to the government. It won't end as long as it basically prints money.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#158

Post by mhb »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #101

I have to admit my naivety on this, but: What exactly is the problem here? Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane. They also have facial recognition data, either from a passport photo or putting a camera in front of the check-in, and arguably they have a right to that. People walk around with their faces all the time. They pos…

Why does the airline need to associate an identity with the seat they have sold you? Though it is a distant memory now, there was a time when you showed a ticket and got on the plane and the ticket could be transferred to anyone.

But, yes - terrorism and the children.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#159

Post by chapium »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #101

I have to admit my naivety on this, but: What exactly is the problem here? Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane. They also have facial recognition data, either from a passport photo or putting a camera in front of the check-in, and arguably they have a right to that. People walk around with their faces all the time. They pos…

Her follow up questiom to Jetblue was "where did you get a reference photo of me?" thats the creepy part.

For example if I were to walk into Starbucks and they say "hi $adult how is $child", and then i ask how do you know that. The reply is we got that info from the DHS. Yes, very creepy.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#160

Post by chapium »

PietdeVries wrote: post #45
alkonaut wrote: post #38

If a private company says they'll take a picture of me at checkin and then verify that at boarding vs the same picture - then destroy the picture, I'm fine with that. It's a temporary storage of biometric data. I'm especially fine with it if I can opt to go for a paper passport instead. BUT If a private company uses some database, especially a centralized/government database, to do the same task - then it's absolutel…

Is the issue with the private company, or with the centralized/government instead? Suppose I start my own little company - at least on paper - can I submit a request to access this face-recognization database as well?

The issue is a bit of both. Customer assumed private company had unauthorized personal data after the company performed the boarding pass checkin.
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