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JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

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Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#71

Post by Taniwha »

Jerry2 wrote: post #64

A related story that hasn't received much traction on HN: >US wants to use facial recognition on air travelers leaving the country https://qz.com/1598148/us-wants-to-use-facial-recognition-on...

wow a 97% success rate ... that means that 3% will be arrested for overstaying their visa on return ....

The US is kind of unique in that it doesn't have immigration officers who stamp your passport when you leave ... so you have no proof that you have left ... it also means that there are no transit lounges in the US, you can't land in SFO from say Australia and get on a plane to London without passing through US customs and spending time and money getting a US visa (even an ESTA takes time and money)

At the moment the US depends on airlines to get it right, it used to be that when you arrived they stapled a green bit of cardboard into your passport, sometimes the airlines would forget to collect it as you left, or lose it and people would end up getting arrested when they come back (a night or two in the cells and thrown on a plane back home). For a while there were kiosks in the departure lounge. Now days it's done electronically, and they still get it wrong occasionally, the error rate however is probably way below 3% at the moment.

The horror stories from people caught this way mean that people from Oz/NZ often prefer to travel to Europe the other way around rather than risking US travel

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#72

Post by [deleted] »

Taniwha wrote: post #71
Jerry2 wrote: post #64

A related story that hasn't received much traction on HN: >US wants to use facial recognition on air travelers leaving the country https://qz.com/1598148/us-wants-to-use-facial-recognition-on...

wow a 97% success rate ... that means that 3% will be arrested for overstaying their visa on return .... The US is kind of unique in that it doesn't have immigration officers who stamp your passport when you leave ... so you have no proof that you have left ... it also means that there are no transit lounges in the US, you can't land in SFO from say Australia and get on a plane to London without passing through US cu…

[deleted]

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#73

Post by madeofpalk »

Taniwha wrote: post #71
Jerry2 wrote: post #64

A related story that hasn't received much traction on HN: >US wants to use facial recognition on air travelers leaving the country https://qz.com/1598148/us-wants-to-use-facial-recognition-on...

wow a 97% success rate ... that means that 3% will be arrested for overstaying their visa on return .... The US is kind of unique in that it doesn't have immigration officers who stamp your passport when you leave ... so you have no proof that you have left ... it also means that there are no transit lounges in the US, you can't land in SFO from say Australia and get on a plane to London without passing through US cu…

> mean that people from Oz/NZ often prefer to travel to Europe the other way around rather than risking US travel

I mean, going via the US is 6 hours longer compared to going via Asia.

Sydney > Dubai > London is ~23 hours. Sydney > LA > New York is ~23 hours, and then another 6 to get to London.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#74

Post by cyphar »

zizee wrote: post #60
djcapelis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't even need that, you just walked through some metal detectors and you could hang out near the gate and greet your loved ones coming off the plane. You didn't need a ticket. You didn't need ID. You didn't even need an intent to fly.

Most Australian domestic flights/airports are still like this. Sidenote: entering/exiting both Aus and NZ recently, immigration checkpoints in both countries did appear to make extensive use of facial recognition.

Yes, this is also the case in Europe (EU passports go through automated gates very similar to the Australia/NZ ones). Your passport contains biometric information about your facial structure, and the facial recognition is used to verify it.

Given the somewhat-recent studies[1] which show that the vast majority of border guards (unless they happen to be "super-matchers") have a 1/7-or-worse failure rate when trying to check a person's passport photo, I think it's quite understandable to do the facial recognition electronically.

But such a system should only be used for immigration purposes (where identity verification is very important to get right), not for getting onto a plane or just coming into the waiting areas of domestic airports.

[1]: https://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4185916.htm

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#75

Post by mhenr18 »

zizee wrote: post #60
djcapelis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't even need that, you just walked through some metal detectors and you could hang out near the gate and greet your loved ones coming off the plane. You didn't need a ticket. You didn't need ID. You didn't even need an intent to fly.

Most Australian domestic flights/airports are still like this. Sidenote: entering/exiting both Aus and NZ recently, immigration checkpoints in both countries did appear to make extensive use of facial recognition.

It is worth noting that while it's totally possible to fly domestically in Australia without having your ID checked, you're still required to have one.

I'm actually quite happy with the facial recognition cameras at the Australian border - they make things a lot faster than they used to be from my experience.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#76

Post by gambiting »

iamphilrae wrote: post #61
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

I’ve just flown London to Aberdeen (UK) and back with no need for ID. You certainly can still do this internally. An exception may be if your terminal is mixed in with international flights, then you’ll be lumped in with them at security.

Well yes, because UK is a weird country in that you guys have no official ID system. People either use their driving licence or a passport, and neither is mandatory to have. Most other EU countries just issue everyone with an ID card so 100% of population is covered.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#77

Post by rikkus »

iamphilrae wrote: post #61
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

I’ve just flown London to Aberdeen (UK) and back with no need for ID. You certainly can still do this internally. An exception may be if your terminal is mixed in with international flights, then you’ll be lumped in with them at security.

I didn’t know this was still possible. I used to fly Nottingham Glasgow and it was just like getting on a train or coach. I had wondered why it needed to any different now but I see that it’s because the terminal in EMA is now both for internal and international.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#78

Post by alibarber »

iamphilrae wrote: post #61
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

I’ve just flown London to Aberdeen (UK) and back with no need for ID. You certainly can still do this internally. An exception may be if your terminal is mixed in with international flights, then you’ll be lumped in with them at security.

And often not even then in my experience - T5 Heathrow is where (maybe) all BA's internal flights leave from and a huge amount of their international. Same security, same lounges, same terminal - only time ID is needed is before getting on the plane internationally (or at the Visa-Check desk if that applies to your destination). Mind you a I read something about them taking a photo of you at security for internal flights, and 'assuring' you it's deleted once the flight has left.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#79

Post by Taniwha »

madeofpalk wrote: post #73
Taniwha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow a 97% success rate ... that means that 3% will be arrested for overstaying their visa on return .... The US is kind of unique in that it doesn't have immigration officers who stamp your passport when you leave ... so you have no proof that you have left ... it also means that there are no transit lounges in the US, you can't land in SFO from say Australia and get on a plane to London without passing through US cu…

> mean that people from Oz/NZ often prefer to travel to Europe the other way around rather than risking US travel I mean, going via the US is 6 hours longer compared to going via Asia. Sydney > Dubai > London is ~23 hours. Sydney > LA > New York is ~23 hours, and then another 6 to get to London.

If you're going to London you would normally fly direct over the pole from LAX/SFO, not stop in NY as well

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#80

Post by skohan »

thoughtfunction wrote: post #36
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

For many years, I remember needed a piece of photo id with my ticket to get through TSA security checkpoints. What were you able to do instead? Just give a ticket?

In Europe I routinely fly without being ID'd. I just present my mobile boarding pass to the scanner, and go through security. Anyone with my phone would be able to get on board.

It's not 100% ID-free though: AFAIK they are permitted to check ID, and they do it randomly.

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