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JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

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Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#61

Post by iamphilrae »

mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

I’ve just flown London to Aberdeen (UK) and back with no need for ID. You certainly can still do this internally. An exception may be if your terminal is mixed in with international flights, then you’ll be lumped in with them at security.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#62

Post by jMyles »

skilled wrote: post #33

I am guessing that the bigger concern here is that this is an 'enabler' tactic to expand facial recognition in other areas of our lives. And if this is the case, then there definitely needs to be some kind of ratification. Maybe this is unrelated, but it's starting to feel like every bad accident in this world is affecting us in this very strange way. For example, I was very surprised to find that Sri Lanka cut every…

> All of a sudden the government has an incentive to enforce more control over its citizens and society as a whole.

It's not sudden at all. The Reichstag fire [0] and the Reichstag Fire Decree [1], which is probably reasonably described as a pivotal part of the rise of Nazi Germany, demonstrate exactly the incentive you describe.

At least as far back as 304 AD [2] - and probably further - people in power have noticed that they can exploit this incentive structure with a "false flag" attack.

* 0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

* 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire_Decree

* 2 https://books.google.co.za/books?id=RDqyIcSLJ0AC&pg=PA164&lp...

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#63

Post by zizee »

skilled wrote: post #33

I am guessing that the bigger concern here is that this is an 'enabler' tactic to expand facial recognition in other areas of our lives. And if this is the case, then there definitely needs to be some kind of ratification. Maybe this is unrelated, but it's starting to feel like every bad accident in this world is affecting us in this very strange way. For example, I was very surprised to find that Sri Lanka cut every…

This is not a new thing in American history, and probably predates America's existence: https://prospect.org/article/when-fear-threatens-freedom

> The pattern of responding to threats by curtailing rights began early in American history. In 1798, when the future of the country was in doubt, Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Act, which made it a crime to falsely criticize the government or government officials—men were sent to prison for speaking ill of certain individuals and decisions.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#65

Post by Klonoar »

ultrarunner wrote: post #21
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> We’ve given up so much freedom Arguably it's merely been taken from us. There are plenty of who object, and the TSA is wildly unpopular. That makes little difference to the fact that the pace continues ever further. I don't mean to be defeatist, but I don't think a sternly worded letter has ever made much of a difference, and probably won't in the future. The only caveat is that when REAL ID takes effect and entire…

Most states will offer a form, it seems, or people will just use their passport.

I do the latter and will just continue to do so. shrug

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#66

Post by debaserab2 »

mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun

I don't disagree that our freedoms are being eroded but what exactly was more fun about air travel 5 years ago that isn't still today?

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#67

Post by tzs »

chipsa wrote: post #39
numakerg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms. It doesn't seem all that scary if everyone's doing it. Just look at the use of facial recognition in the movie Coco. They could have made up any magic to stop Hector from leaving, but Disney decided to teach kids that having your faced scanned when going through security is totally normal. https://youtu.be/t9Dn4YrJGak?t=92

And magic did stop Hector from leaving. He couldn't actually step on the flower petal bridge. So what was the point of the checkpoint?

I'd guess it is the other way around. It takes magic to be able to use the bridge. At the checkpoint they check to see that someone has put your photo out. If someone has then the checkpoint puts the enchantment on you that lets you use the bridge. Hector had no photo, so didn't get the enchantment at the checkpoint.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#68

Post by jjeaff »

vinay427 wrote: post #59
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). You can still do this: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Sometimes yes, but they may or may not let you through if you can't answer their questions.

I had to do it once and just barely got through. They had to phone in and then ask me several questions that were rather ambiguous. Sort of like credit check questions but with some other strange stuff mixed in. The only specific question I remember was they asked me to name any churches or schools nearby my home address.

Then I had to get a very invasive patdown and they had to take every item out of my bag and check them all individually.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#69

Post by jjeaff »

Jerry2 wrote: post #64

A related story that hasn't received much traction on HN: >US wants to use facial recognition on air travelers leaving the country https://qz.com/1598148/us-wants-to-use-facial-recognition-on...

They already use it at customs when you are coming back to the US.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#70

Post by javajosh »

ultrarunner wrote: post #21
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> We’ve given up so much freedom Arguably it's merely been taken from us. There are plenty of who object, and the TSA is wildly unpopular. That makes little difference to the fact that the pace continues ever further. I don't mean to be defeatist, but I don't think a sternly worded letter has ever made much of a difference, and probably won't in the future. The only caveat is that when REAL ID takes effect and entire…

Why isn't this a political issue? I think it's because politicians are increasingly distracted by re-election, and end up delegating the actual work of governing to enormous bureaucracies, public and private. This delegation comes gladly, for two reasons: first, the risk of mistakes is very high, so the fewer decisions you actually make, the better, and second, the delegated organizations are very good at keeping the real perceived complexity of problems high. (Incidental complexity can be weaponized, like anything else.)

That said, the experiment hasn't really been done. Can a politician campaign on restoring the dignity of the American public? Can a politician convince people that security theater is real and really harmful? I would guess not, but I would be glad to support whoever that is.

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