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JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

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Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#51

Post by jacquesm »

alkonaut wrote: post #38

If a private company says they'll take a picture of me at checkin and then verify that at boarding vs the same picture - then destroy the picture, I'm fine with that. It's a temporary storage of biometric data. I'm especially fine with it if I can opt to go for a paper passport instead. BUT If a private company uses some database, especially a centralized/government database, to do the same task - then it's absolutel…

What do you think are the chances that any of this data is actually destroyed?

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#52

Post by devmunchies »

Zarath wrote: post #30
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

People in the west need to get over their phobia of violence. Until there is mass destruction of property (security cameras), or riots, or violence against politicians, nothing is going to change. Maybe I just have less faith in the system than other people, but I believe that any system will be successfully gamed after a certain number of years and that's what we have on our hands. I have very little faith in the ab…

yes, and people who think there is no violence or aggression in the west don't realize that the government just has a monopoly on it. Militias used to be common and very American.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#53

Post by jacquesm »

Scea91 wrote: post #9
ahelwer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should be very concerned, because this is obviously testing the waters before rolling out ubiquitous facial recognition. I honestly and earnestly believe that use of facial recognition technology should be banned in all its forms. The applications are limited and the downsides are massive.

In this particular case, the application of facial recognition improves airport security (against forged passports, sloppy security personnel, ...) while not probably requiring any additional information than what would already be provided by passports with biometric data. In my opinion, this is one of the few applications where it actually makes sense.

Do we know the instance count of forged passports vs the chances of spotting a fake when done by humans vs the computer?

Sloppy security personnel is not something you address with tech, you address that with training and incentives.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#54

Post by djcapelis »

rdiddly wrote: post #46
djcapelis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't even need that, you just walked through some metal detectors and you could hang out near the gate and greet your loved ones coming off the plane. You didn't need a ticket. You didn't need ID. You didn't even need an intent to fly.

But don't you remember the constant steady stream of daily terrorist attacks? [eyeroll]

Haha, oddly enough there was a period where there were almost daily hijackings of aircraft! The most common period for plane hijackings was 1961-1972. It was just a thing that happened sometimes and people totally just rolled with it. Sometimes your plane was hijacked and you landed in Cuba. Whatev, if happens: https://www.vox.com/2016/3/29/11326472/hijacking-airplanes-e...

That's why we added the metal detectors. Reinforcing the cockpit doors may have been an okay response to the events of 9/11 and potentially would have been sufficient to prevent most major terrorist attacks that seek to use the plane itself as a weapon rather than merely destroying it. (Also people will generally gang up to attack hijackers now rather than just remaining calm and letting them fly the plane elsewhere. Which sufficiently changes the dynamic.)

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#55

Post by arno_app »

That biometric data is stored by a government is a whole other discussion in my eyes. If they provide a secure API that just let's you query through facial data and return which passenger from the company provided list it is I'm fine as long as the biometric data gets destroyed afterwards (the one provided to the API). But of course how can I know this as a passenger. I like the idea to make a process less painful but yeah it seems to have a lot of pitfalls

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#56

Post by stedaniels »

6nf wrote: post #50
joe_the_user wrote: post #47

I'd be as worried about false positives and false negatives as I would be about losing privacy - and I would certainly be worried about that. Of course, the security of actual boarding passes seems extremely flimsy compared to the rest of airport security. The airlines could just take a picture and do no more verification at all, and wind-up with current security.

False positives is not a big deal, if two people check in under the same name it's easy to manually figure it out

I imagine the OP meant a nefarious third party using someone else's boarding pass?

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#57

Post by chrisbolt »

ultrarunner wrote: post #21
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> We’ve given up so much freedom Arguably it's merely been taken from us. There are plenty of who object, and the TSA is wildly unpopular. That makes little difference to the fact that the pace continues ever further. I don't mean to be defeatist, but I don't think a sternly worded letter has ever made much of a difference, and probably won't in the future. The only caveat is that when REAL ID takes effect and entire…

> The only caveat is that when REAL ID takes effect and entire states full of people (e.g. Arizona) simply cannot fly

Citation?

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id shows Arizona in green.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#58

Post by mav3rick »

numakerg wrote: post #27
mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

>We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms. It doesn't seem all that scary if everyone's doing it. Just look at the use of facial recognition in the movie Coco. They could have made up any magic to stop Hector from leaving, but Disney decided to teach kids that having your faced scanned when going through security is totally normal. https://youtu.be/t9Dn4YrJGak?t=92

Jesus it was a cute antic,not some conspiracy by Disney.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#59

Post by vinay427 »

mch82 wrote: post #16

How much longer will we allow our freedoms to be eroded? People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally). We’ve given up so much freedom & so much of what made air travel fun in exchange for so little. We need to stop letting people scare us into giving away our freedoms.

> People were flying without any photo ID until just a few years ago (except internationally).

You can still do this:

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#60

Post by zizee »

djcapelis wrote: post #40
thoughtfunction wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many years, I remember needed a piece of photo id with my ticket to get through TSA security checkpoints. What were you able to do instead? Just give a ticket?

You didn't even need that, you just walked through some metal detectors and you could hang out near the gate and greet your loved ones coming off the plane. You didn't need a ticket. You didn't need ID. You didn't even need an intent to fly.

Most Australian domestic flights/airports are still like this.

Sidenote: entering/exiting both Aus and NZ recently, immigration checkpoints in both countries did appear to make extensive use of facial recognition.

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