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TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

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Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#261

Post by int_19h »

ahallock wrote: post #259
int_19h wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It "saves" time that is taken away from you by intentionally complicated tax code and filing procedures, that are pushed by lobbyists hired by the same company that sells you TurboTax.

So we're blaming TurboTax for a corrupt government. If the government is supposed to represent the people, it's doing a shit job, and I can't blame TurboTax for cashing in. About the only thing we can do boycott TurboTax.

When corruption involves two parties, we generally blame both of them, yes. Giving a bribe is illegal, not just receiving it.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#262

Post by int_19h »

harryh wrote: post #244
int_19h wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all very good reasons, but in practice it mainly means that the richer you are, the less you pay in taxes as proportion of your overall income, and there's a point past which taxation is essentially regressive as a result. So any such argument has to demonstrate that the obvious disparity that already exists in that arrangement is less of a problem than any of the hypothetical problems from taxing capital g…

there's a point past which taxation is essentially regressive as a result Perhaps, but the US is not past that point. Every level of income pays a higher rate of taxes than the level below it according to IRS reports. Separately, none of the issues I listed are hypothetical.

> Every level of income pays a higher rate of taxes than the level below it according to IRS reports

Does their definition of "income" include capital gains for the purpose of those reports? I don't see how this could possibly be true if it does, given that capital gains constitute the largest part of overall income past a certain point on the scale.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#263

Post by harryh »

int_19h wrote: post #262
harryh wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a point past which taxation is essentially regressive as a result Perhaps, but the US is not past that point. Every level of income pays a higher rate of taxes than the level below it according to IRS reports. Separately, none of the issues I listed are hypothetical.

> Every level of income pays a higher rate of taxes than the level below it according to IRS reports Does their definition of "income" include capital gains for the purpose of those reports? I don't see how this could possibly be true if it does, given that capital gains constitute the largest part of overall income past a certain point on the scale.

Does their definition of "income" include capital gains for the purpose of those reports?

Yes

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-...

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#264

Post by apta »

SilasX wrote: post #59
stetrain wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a fair service then they should be able to be obvious and upfront about the difference between the two options.

Right, especially since it's so counterintuitive -- paying with a credit card usually costs them more so you don't expect that paying out of the refund would be the more expensive option. In fairness, I may have missed something more obvious in the UX.

> In fairness, I may have missed something more obvious in the UX.

You didn't. It's phrased on purpose to not make it sound like you're paying for this "service". And the lettering does not stand out (compare to say all their annoying ads to make you upgrade).

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#265

Post by gleenn »

zaidf wrote: post #234
sinatra wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement, "If it's free, I'm the product" is becoming less and less relevant because, "Even if it's not free, I'm usually the product anyway" Think Comcast, Verizon, various Android phones, various modern TVs, etc.

Also: Apple.

Do you have any citations for that claim? Anything I can search for?

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#266

Post by geomark »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #50
untog wrote: post #11

They're not perfect, but I've had success filing with FreeTaxUSA - federal is free, state is $15: https://www.freetaxusa.com/ Obviously too late for people this year, and my tax situation is relatively straightforward so I can't speak to how well it handles edge cases, but the first year I used it I went through the process with both TurboTax and FreeTaxUSA and got the exact same estimated refund. The last straw with…

I used Free Tax USA this year, and it ended up giving me the same number Turbo Tax did (since you can do Turbo Tax for free until the end). My taxes include a multitude of stock sales, losses (from calls and puts), as well as my W2. It takes a little longer to fill out then Turbo Tax due to the lack of integrations with banks and what not, but I still finished the whole thing in less than an hour. It's free for Feder…

Does Free Tax USA handle US expats who don't have a US mailing address? Some years ago TuboTax did not support electronic filing so I was forced to print out the tax return and send it via a third world postal service. Not a good feeling.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#267

Post by torstenvl »

holtalanm wrote: post #29

I have never used TurboTax, but I have used H&R Block online filing every year of my adult life, and haven't had any issues. One year I was curious about my refund (thought I was paying more than I should) and brought my return in to an actual brick & mortar H & R Block office, and they told me that my return just about perfect, but they urged me to increase my monthly withholdings to avoid paying taxes at tax season…

H&R Block seems very poor quality. It isn't capable of keeping track of state non-taxable income that's taxable at the federal level, and consistently tells me I owe my state thousands more than I really do.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#268

Post by bscphil »

The real dirty secret of tax software is that even after all they've done to try to make filing your taxes as difficult as possible, I still find just using the IRS's "FreeFileFillableForms" software to fill out and submit my own 1040 far easier than any software I've ever used.

In particular, every piece of tax software I've used has had trouble with figuring out what I owe on scholarships and stipends, and letting me enter it in the software. After four hours fighting H&R Block's "free" software one time, I swore I would never do it again and just do my own taxes now. Far easier, and faster.

Plus since I'm a California resident filing state taxes is as easy as reading numbers off the 1040 to put into the FTB website.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#269

Post by wasdfff »

wool_gather wrote: post #69
turc1656 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? I can see the case for a complex code for business taxes since there are many different industries that have different rules. But personal returns should never, ever have such complicated rules. And that doesn't m…

What complicated rules? The basic 1040 is perfectly straightforward, even if you have a few sources of income or special deductions/credits.

Unlike any of my w2s, my -DIV forms look completely different with different boxes and different names for these boxes. Some have a dozen boxes, some have one or two. Some dont even send me a proper form but an “equivalent” or something to that effect. Every time I file taxes its a gamble that I parsed the form I got from the brokerage correctly.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#270

Post by godelski »

ip26 wrote: post #253
godelski wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? My response is: >Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why are we even having to file our own taxes? The IRS already checks everything. They have all the information that you enter into these systems (in fact, turbo tax has frequently had my W2 befo…

Why are we even having to file our own taxes? Supposedly a political gambit from the right. The idea is if paying your taxes is painless, you will cease to notice them. But the more painful paying them becomes, the more attention you will pay to what you are paying, and then the more you will object & vote to lower your taxes.

I've heard this too, but also that Regan supported this style of taxing. Which seems like part of the Republican ideal: cut out the middle man.
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