Live data from Hacker News

TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

propublica.org

251–260 of 283 posts

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#251

Regardless of whether Intuit is willfully or accidentally using dark patterns to get paying customers, their incentives completely explain how they ended up with such a complete garbage endpoint. Of course, that is being very generous, because they are also directly influencing the policy makers that establish the incentive structures for Intuit.

You think they accidentally tripped and fell into their website design?

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement, "If it's free, I'm the product" is becoming less and less relevant because, "Even if it's not free, I'm usually the product anyway" Think Comcast, Verizon, various Android phones, various modern TVs, etc.

Okay, granted many companies do it, but you're still dodging the parent comment's issue about this specifically. WHY is it free, WHAT are they doing?

WHAT are they doing?

I think his point is something like "Who knows, but you can be sure TurboTax is doing it too"

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? I can see the case for a complex code for business taxes since there are many different industries that have different rules. But personal returns should never, ever have such complicated rules. And that doesn't m…

> Why the hell is the tax code so damn complicated that it requires certified experts and special software to perform personal tax filings? My response is: >Nah, you're missing the forest when looking at the trees. Go bigger. Why are we even having to file our own taxes? The IRS already checks everything. They have all the information that you enter into these systems (in fact, turbo tax has frequently had my W2 befo…

Why are we even having to file our own taxes?

Supposedly a political gambit from the right. The idea is if paying your taxes is painless, you will cease to notice them. But the more painful paying them becomes, the more attention you will pay to what you are paying, and then the more you will object & vote to lower your taxes.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how can I incentivise people to do things like buy hybrid or electric cars, solar, etc without tax breaks, and how do I do tax breaks without complicated calculations based on laws pseudocode) and a bunch of other numbers?

I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything. Similarly there should be no difference in filing married vs separately or with children. To me it just feels wrong to incentivise living a certain lifestyle by getting a discount at just existing. It is great when it incentivises the things you want, such as hybrid cars or something, but what would happen if someone wanted to give you a disco…

I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything.

Would you argue that potato chips shouldn't be taxed, or that produce should be?

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#255
post #3

In my experience this year, TurboTax prompted me that I could save money by upgrading to a paid plan via taking advantage of some extra deduction. I thought, "if it's going to save me more than I pay for it, why not?" I clicked through and found that this deduction wouldn't actually save me any money. I then couldn't find a way to get back to the free plan (they only charge you after you file, so this should be possi…

Your SSN is not a password

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#256
post #255
post #3

In my experience this year, TurboTax prompted me that I could save money by upgrading to a paid plan via taking advantage of some extra deduction. I thought, "if it's going to save me more than I pay for it, why not?" I clicked through and found that this deduction wouldn't actually save me any money. I then couldn't find a way to get back to the free plan (they only charge you after you file, so this should be possi…

Your SSN is not a password

Well, it certainly shouldn't be, but the corporate machine has more power than I do in what my SSN is used for, sadly.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most I don't. And many of them work against me as well.

Unless you've never been outside, eaten food that was grown or raised outdoors, consumed water, used medicine or medical services, lived in proximity to other people or done business with...well, pretty much any business, I think you're mistaken.

The servitude model: after all, anything and everyhting is provided by the state, so the state owns you!

What if you don't live in the country?

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#258
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything. Similarly there should be no difference in filing married vs separately or with children. To me it just feels wrong to incentivise living a certain lifestyle by getting a discount at just existing. It is great when it incentivises the things you want, such as hybrid cars or something, but what would happen if someone wanted to give you a disco…

I'm in the camp that there should be no incentives for taxes for anything. Would you argue that potato chips shouldn't be taxed, or that produce should be?

I wasn't talking about sales tax, only yearly tax filings. Anything that is on an itemized tax return should be moved elsewhere into programs specifically for giving money for that instead of being given a coupon off of what you owe.

If there is some reason you report produce on your tax documents then no, it should not be there.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the healthcare.gov debacle? TurboTax isn't that much and it saves time and headache. People think in binary of free vs not-free while not considering the cost of time.

It "saves" time that is taken away from you by intentionally complicated tax code and filing procedures, that are pushed by lobbyists hired by the same company that sells you TurboTax.

So we're blaming TurboTax for a corrupt government. If the government is supposed to represent the people, it's doing a shit job, and I can't blame TurboTax for cashing in. About the only thing we can do boycott TurboTax.

Re: TurboTax Uses Dark Patterns to Trick You into Paying to File Your Taxes

#260

Regardless of whether Intuit is willfully or accidentally using dark patterns to get paying customers, their incentives completely explain how they ended up with such a complete garbage endpoint. Of course, that is being very generous, because they are also directly influencing the policy makers that establish the incentive structures for Intuit.

You think they accidentally tripped and fell into their website design?

No, it is likely intentionally bad. Angel's advocate.
Post reply on HN