Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

livestream.tesla.com

131–140 of 550 posts

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#131

“Anyone using Lidar is doomed” Strong words from Musk about sticking with video only. Later on in the software talk: “Lidar is really a shortcut which sidesteps the fundamental problems...and gives us a false sense of progress”

I wonder if he's going to explain this position at all? Or if it's just posturing against Waymo et al. Seems like more data is always better than less data for this application?

They explain it in the software talk. In short, I think his thesis is:

Lidar is expensive, and gives surprisingly limited data (just points of depth) and is like a crutch that will only get so far. It will not get you to full autonomy so why not spend the time and money on vision which will (as proven by humans). They also do use radar and ultrasonics (not visual spectrum).

At some point your machine must be good enough via machine learning to give a very good impression of understanding intention in other road users, pedestrians etc. One example they gave was a distracted pedestrian with a phone. Lidar tells you nothing save an obstacle is on the pavement, it won’t tell you they might step out without looking, but machine learning on a massive dataset can.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#132
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it snowed a few weekends ago in Chicago, my autopilot turned off because snow covered up the cameras. So I am not buying all this "self driving with no lidar" brouhaha

And would you drive if snow covered your windscreen? Or would you clean it? Which is obviously possible for cameras too.

The windscreen has wipers, on the Tesla model 3, I don't think all the sensors have wipers... so that's an issue.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#133
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't LIDAR has similar problems with precipitation? Regardless of what solution proves to be the best, there is going to be a decent amount of time between when a self driving car can handle most scenarios and when it can handle all possible scenarios.

Here's a snow cover map of North America on a random day in January: https://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_v3/ims_gif/ARCHIVE/U... Here is Europe and Asia on the same day: https://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_v3/ims_gif/ARCHIVE/E... For someone who lives in or close to that white part, "most scenarios" includes snow. Arguably for Level 4 autonomous cars in those areas, you either need to fully disable autonomy i…

You are comparing two different things. Old snow on the ground (your images) is not the same thing as active or recent snow accumulation on the vehicle (the original comment). It is completely reasonable for the car to disable autonomy due to snow accumulation until someone clears it off the vehicle. That says nothing about the autonomy of the vehicle with snow cover on the ground.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presentation makes it clear your claim is entirely false, you should watch it.

No, it's spot on. It's entirely what I said: the car can only deliver a few raw frames, and only in response to particular triggers. Notice the cherry-picked examples in the presentation. There is a whole class of problems the field cars can never help with, since they lack the dead-reckoning sensor setup and precise odometry a development car would have.

They showed video in the presentation which was clearly not ‘a few frames’, unless by a few frames you mean seconds of video.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#135

I'm sorry but I'm finding it really difficult to watch this and match up what the engineer is saying to what Elon Musk is saying. For example, the engineer says the custom ASIC does 144 TOps for 2 chips vs the NVidia drive Xavier - does 21 TOps. Okay, well yeah I expect your custom ASIC does have a nice performance advantage over the equivalent GPU. at 3.5x advantage probably seems reasonable. Cue Elon Musk: "At firs…

I'm a fan of Tesla, but not Musk. You really can't believe much that comes out of his mouth. If you look at his past claims it becomes clear that he should just be ignored.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#137

Interesting pieces: - First principles hardware design of focused self driving computer (many times better than any competing existing hardware). Already shipping in all newly produced cars. Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years. - Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making that won't succeed (too expensive, need too many, unnecessary). - Real world fleet test…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#138

Interesting pieces: - First principles hardware design of focused self driving computer (many times better than any competing existing hardware). Already shipping in all newly produced cars. Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years. - Lidar is an unnecessary mistake that competitors are making that won't succeed (too expensive, need too many, unnecessary). - Real world fleet test…

You missed the most glorious part of

>Currently working on next gen that will be 3x better to ship in a couple years.

Someone asked what the primary design objective of the next generation chip would be and the engineer muttered 'safety' before Musk made the 3x claim.

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#139

Karpathy's presentation is really good. Watch it later if you get some time. The key points are - Telsa is using fleet for learning (Fleet learning). This has 3 components, a. Trigger infrasture that collects the kind of data telsa is looking for training. The rational here is we don't need massive amounts of same kind of data but needs right kind of data for training neural networks correctly. b. Data Engine which l…

Does anyone doing lidar not also do visual recognition?

Re: Tesla Live Stream – Autonomy Day [video]

#140
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is he means "on the highway". The scary bits of self-driving is person detection, crossing detection, roadwork detection, cyclist detection (e.g. coming up on the right when you are trying to make a right turn). The Waymo end-game that I heard was "able to go through a drive-thru". I highly doubt Tesla is anywhere near that point.

There have been news reports about the model 3 autopilot getting its speed limits from maps, lacking any sort of sign recognition or manual override to adjust to local conditions. The maps seem to be outdated for germany (1). That’s an essential feature even on the autobahn. Given that test result I’d even be skeptical about any claims of being ahead of the game on the highway. (1) https://m.heise.de/autos/artikel/Te…

This is very strange though, is there any confirmation of this?

Basically, most other manufacturers like Opel, Audi, Mercedes, Hyundai, VW, Volvo, Ford, etc. has had for several years the feature to detect speed limit from computer vision recognizing the road signs. And it works reliably, as is pointed out in your link.

How can Tesla be a leader in using computer vision for cars, but not be able to read the road signs?

Post reply on HN