Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…
>This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong Why are local players very strong? * Regulatory capture * Government promotion of internal services * IP theft from western countries How about, all of the above?
Amazon Quits China Market
81–90 of 316 posts
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#82Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#83This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…
Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…
> Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba
Funding a local competitor is not interference?
Chinese Government Has A Huge "Stake" In Alibaba
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaysomaney/2015/10/18/chinese-g...
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…
> This has nothing to with government interference > Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba Funding a local competitor is not interference? Chinese Government Has A Huge "Stake" In Alibaba https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaysomaney/2015/10/18/chinese-g...
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#85This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#86It's hard to compete against government sponsored monopolies inside China. There's also a huge nationalism sentiment brewing in China and distrust growing for western companies and nationals from other countries. It's sort of hard to wrap your head around these concepts as a westerner, because we start form two different places of thinking; in China, the government is your way of life, as long as it doesn't interfere…
Amazon still runs AWS in China with a Chinese partner. This is just Amazon.cn being unable to compete with local alternatives like Taobao.
What you're saying isn't wrong but I don't think it's particularly relevant to this situation.
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#87What's with these comments that Amazon couldn't win in China because they didn't play well by Chinese rules? The article paints a pretty compelling picture that the issue is that Amazon couldn't compete well with local companies. If they were that bad at competing, they wouldn't need conflict with the government to fail, failure would be a natural effect of being unable to keep up with local competition.
I think most people underestimate how difficult it is to compete on local turf (even without political handicaps). In fact it may very well be that Alibaba and JD are in fact the better services and would be dominating in the west if not for the same home turf advantage.
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#88This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
But if you're lived in China and used JD or other delivery companies, you have to agree that the delivery fee is insanely cheap for same-day delivery, and that this gig work seems on borrowed time, the costs are going to increase, and the question is, will JD be able to keep this up? Amazon is using proven multi-decade logistics companies for delivery, so it's pretty certain their internal cost structures are rationa…
Alibaba outsourced logistics to a big extend. There is their own Cainiao, but it is just a franchise front for small delivery companies. They pay market rate, and that's nothing unreal when most Chinese live in densely built up apartment blocks (a big difference from USA)
Shanghai minimum wage is 2500 RMB/mo. So in order to make minimum wage, this guy would need to make 500 orders in 30 days, or 16 deliveries per day. In an 8 hour day, could he pick up and make 16 deliveries? Sure, but it's tight, and obviously at some point, they have to pay the delivery guys more.
And they have, but in order for O2O players to pay more to the delivery people, they've ended up charging more to the restaurants, and so the restaurants have then ended up raising the prices on the menus displayed.
So this indicates that the current O2O system in China wasn't stable. Despite massive revenues, the heavy competition, discounts, and artificially low introductory fees, and ease of switching, doesn't give me confidence their current structure will work.
And 饿了吗‘s logistics seem pretty chaotic to me and no different than Postmates or Doordash in the US. I rarely saw delivery bikes loaded down with multiple orders, because 15-30 minute delivery windows pretty much dictate a point-to-point delivery, rather than a hub and spokes model.
Re: Amazon Quits China Market
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I personally would defer judgement on why Amazon is leaving; Alibaba tends to be the most competitive of the Chinese internet companies, and has a corporate culture very similar to Amazon (frugal, but with 996). But Alibaba isn’t really Amazon’s main competitor, they are much more B2B than B2C, it’s only when you throw in TMall or Taobao that comparisons become more apt. When I was living in Beijing, my wife and I ne…
I would assume they meant Alibaba Group which is Taobao, Tmall, Alibaba.com, AliExpress, Alipay, Aliyun. Ele.me, Youku etc. Taobao is pretty amazing. But slightly hard to explain. It is like Amazon, eBay, Shopify, Wish and more in one.