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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#521

Post by TheOperator »

sbuk wrote: post #402
orblivion wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say this as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U5n2WaMMHo I was a real dumbass myself one day and spilled a glass of water on my Lenovo in a cafe. I took it apart just in case to dry out, but I'm not sure I even needed to. I put it together and it was just fine. I have an Apple laptop for work and I work in cafes a lot. I assumed that Apple of all companies would consider this lifestyle issue, but…

Annecdata. I had someone accidentally knock a glass of water over a working T440s and it died.

They're water resistant not water proof. If you pour water right down the CPU vents you're gonna have a bad time.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#522

Post by moftz »

npongratz wrote: post #458
chx wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was IdeaPad, nothing to do with ThinkPad.

Good to know, thanks! Do both lines have completely different engineering and management leadership? That might put me at some ease.

The Ideapads are built like the cheap piece of crap x86 Windows laptops you can buy from anyone. They are fine for grandma checking her email but they are not meant to be on the move or do anything hard. I'm assuming the engineering teams are totally different. Thinkpads aren't cheap and the build quality generally shows that.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#523

Post by moftz »

camelNotation wrote: post #410
cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

I remember knocking over a bottle of water onto my T420 freshman year of college. I knew the drain holes were there but never tested it. It was pretty nerve-wracking for a few minutes wiping up all the water and seeing my laptop still working.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#524

Post by TheOperator »

kcommam wrote: post #406
fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I feel the exact same way and have always recommended Macs to friends, family and cwoorkers as the computere that "just works." I'm been suspicious of people who disagree with that sentiment — to each their own, but I don't think there's much dispuute that Macs just work. Yet, now, heere I am with a 2018 MacBooko Pro that repeats keys randomly — somoetimes out of theorder they were pushed— andstarting to wonder if I…

My MBA2012 had some nasty issues with wifi disconnections which happened independant of the router being used. Used a USB wifi or ethernet adapter as a workaround sometimes sacrificing half my USB ports. Trackpad was great and I am blown away that people complain about it since I consider it the market leader. Outlived most of my other laptops even if it had annoying recurring issues for its lifespan.

Still recommended macs to others until Tim Apple took over the company and the laptops became poor quality machines. I thought the initial MBPr was the most incredible laptop I've ever seen.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#525

Post by grincho »

mrguyorama wrote: post #492
weberc2 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I do have a non-magic mouse. What issues do you have?

Pointer speed was atrocious and turning off stupid acceleration was impossible without crazy plist hacking

I paid $20 for USB Overdrive, an excellent third-party driver, so I could continue using my ancient MS Intellimouse when its drivers took a turn for the worse. You can set speed and acceleration separately, and the curves are as good as the MS ones.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#526

Post by deminature »

To play devil's advocate, I've fully adjusted to the butterfly keyboard design and find the travel of the older keys excessive and unnecessary work for my fingers. All my colleagues type 8hr+ a day on the butterfly keyboard without complaints.

While I have experienced the annoyance of debris getting caught underneath keys, it seems like a problem of refinement of the design rather than tossing it out entirely, as many seem to be advocating.

I'm not sure articles like these are indicative of general sentiment towards the design. People enjoying the keyboard have no reason to comment about it, because having an opinion that you enjoy the status quo isn't interesting or worth sharing.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#527

Post by JonathonW »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #428
fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboar…

Same here as well. I've had stuff get caught in my (mid-2017) keyboard a few times, but never anything that didn't clear on its own after a few keypresses and I've never had issues with repeated or missed keypresses.

(That said, I have to agree with one of the other child commenters here-- the current Magic Keyboard is actually my favorite of Apple's recent keyboards. Similar feel to the tbMBP keyboards (more crisp and clicky than the older keyboards from the pre-touchbar rMBPs), with a bit more travel and a more robust mechanism, and the numpad version has a nice, big T-layout for the arrow keys rather than whatever the heck is going on with the arrow keys on the tbMBP.)

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#528

Post by chrischen »

gnicholas wrote: post #448
tzakrajs wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess this guy was pleased with his slower processor too.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

You can get the benefits of a faster processor without constantly maxing it out. A faster clocked processor will complete tasks faster. If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, but if you do any type of compilation the extra cores and speed will make a significant difference.

In the case of node and client side development, the extra speed can shave seconds off hot code injection and compilation times on every code change (every time you save the file).

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#529

Post by seba_dos1 »

13rac1 wrote: post #497
reacharavindh wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much there with you. I run MacOS on my MBP for work. I built a workstation at home and run Ubuntu on it. I decided to upgrade to latest Ubuntu drooling over the GNOME perf improvements and I have a system that wont connect to any network and the settings app won't open and would like to send a crash dump to Canonical :-( I can afford such problems on my personal desktop, google the issues and spend a part of day…

This is why both my work and personal machines only run LTS versions.

I rather use rolling releases. This way the breakage is contained to 5-10 minute fixing sessions once in a few months, instead of a huge whole-day upgrading session every new release.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#530

Post by jboles »

toast0 wrote: post #305
seba_dos1 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I just don’t have time to a.) tune and configure it to work and have decent battery life with whatever hardware I choose or b.) troubleshoot it when it randomly decides to break itself on update From my experience, troubleshooting macOS when it randomly decides to break is almost a Windows-like experience - lots of frustration and no sensible help on the internet (unless your problem is so trivial it gets solve…

From about 7 years of troubleshooting mac problems, it's actually worse than Windows problems. First, you find people discussing the problem where everyone claims it doesn't exist and no solutions are found. Then you find the problem and solution for mac os from 2008, and that solution definitely doesn't work, but might also break things worse. Then you decide, it's best to just make sure your headphones aren't on wh…

I curse this every time I am troubleshooting a Mac problem and someone replies to a forum thread with "reset the PRAM".
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